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	<title>Comments on: The Addict’s Trusty Relapse Kit</title>
	<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/</link>
	<description>Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, AA, 12-step</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

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		<title>by: Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-4615</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 23:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-4615</guid>
					<description>I have been going to AA for 23 months (sober all the while),but something isn't quite right.I have a sponser,but I dont support the concept. I do not subscribe to the one day at a time thought process. I planned to never drink again from day one, but would never admit this to any &quot;AA&quot;. Now, when I voice my opinions on dedicating your life to &quot;staying sober&quot;, and tell the group to stop making excuses, I am singled out and made to look foolish. When I recently told a group that working the steps was not hard, you just had to do it, an &quot;old timer&quot; said &quot;He talks a good game, but if you listen he is full of it.” THIS ISN'T A GAME! I told another old timer, “I have done everything AA has asked. In two years, I have gone to something like 550 meetings, done service work, have a home group and a sponser. Why dont I feel like I fit in? His comment was &quot;When you fall on your ass, I'll be here to pick it up&quot;. &lt;em&gt;I was insulted!&lt;/em&gt; I guess you can see why this web site has peaked my interest. Thanks

&lt;hr&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Todd,

Welcome back to your original home. AA wanted to be your “new family,” but in your heart you remained true to your original identity, which was instilled in you as a young child.

Addiction is a survival drive, but so is family attachment. Families are the cradle of life, where life begins and is protected, nurtured, and prepared for independent, adult living. You acquired a moral conscience in your family, and that was washed away by your addiction.

Your addiction was like a magnet for other addicted people, and you longed for a new family who would accept you and protect you. Although AA tried to pull you away from your native beliefs and values, your family loyalty has won out.

You don’t belong in the social ghetto of recovery groups, and everything in you has rebelled against your “new family.” However, you have acquired some bad thinking patterns and the slogans and mottoes of AA will haunt your thoughts for many years.

Your last name is no longer, “Imanalcoholic,” so shine up your family coat of arms and be proud of your last name and your ancestral heritage. Your original family values have great survival value, and your existence is proof of that. You haven’t inherited any addiction problem at all, but you did inherit the solution.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been going to AA for 23 months (sober all the while),but something isn&#8217;t quite right.I have a sponser,but I dont support the concept. I do not subscribe to the one day at a time thought process. I planned to never drink again from day one, but would never admit this to any &#8220;AA&#8221;. Now, when I voice my opinions on dedicating your life to &#8220;staying sober&#8221;, and tell the group to stop making excuses, I am singled out and made to look foolish. When I recently told a group that working the steps was not hard, you just had to do it, an &#8220;old timer&#8221; said &#8220;He talks a good game, but if you listen he is full of it.” THIS ISN&#8217;T A GAME! I told another old timer, “I have done everything AA has asked. In two years, I have gone to something like 550 meetings, done service work, have a home group and a sponser. Why dont I feel like I fit in? His comment was &#8220;When you fall on your ass, I&#8217;ll be here to pick it up&#8221;. <em>I was insulted!</em> I guess you can see why this web site has peaked my interest. Thanks</p>
<hr /><br />
<blockquote><p>Todd,</p>
<p>Welcome back to your original home. AA wanted to be your “new family,” but in your heart you remained true to your original identity, which was instilled in you as a young child.</p>
<p>Addiction is a survival drive, but so is family attachment. Families are the cradle of life, where life begins and is protected, nurtured, and prepared for independent, adult living. You acquired a moral conscience in your family, and that was washed away by your addiction.</p>
<p>Your addiction was like a magnet for other addicted people, and you longed for a new family who would accept you and protect you. Although AA tried to pull you away from your native beliefs and values, your family loyalty has won out.</p>
<p>You don’t belong in the social ghetto of recovery groups, and everything in you has rebelled against your “new family.” However, you have acquired some bad thinking patterns and the slogans and mottoes of AA will haunt your thoughts for many years.</p>
<p>Your last name is no longer, “Imanalcoholic,” so shine up your family coat of arms and be proud of your last name and your ancestral heritage. Your original family values have great survival value, and your existence is proof of that. You haven’t inherited any addiction problem at all, but you did inherit the solution.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Candace</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-3737</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-3737</guid>
					<description>I  just finished reading everything I could on this website. I will say as of yesterday I’m abstinent and will be tomorrow and 10,20,and 30 years after that. In some aspects of life, a grey area is ok, &lt;em&gt;but not in defeating the Beast of addiction!&lt;/em&gt; We were put on this earth with everything we needed to survive, without 12-step programs, detox, and recovery centers. Addictions were different in the past; either do it or you don‘t. I just want to thank you for introducing me to this method. It's up to us, not a program. Once again, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  just finished reading everything I could on this website. I will say as of yesterday I’m abstinent and will be tomorrow and 10,20,and 30 years after that. In some aspects of life, a grey area is ok, <em>but not in defeating the Beast of addiction!</em> We were put on this earth with everything we needed to survive, without 12-step programs, detox, and recovery centers. Addictions were different in the past; either do it or you don‘t. I just want to thank you for introducing me to this method. It&#8217;s up to us, not a program. Once again, thanks.
</p>
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		<title>by: Heather </title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-3693</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-3693</guid>
					<description>I want to begin by saying I work in the addiction counseling field and face many of the frustrations you speak of so freely.  I do wonder, Mr. Trimpey, what is the individual who was raised without basic decent family values to do?  I admit I have not read your AVRT based recovery information and after reading your home page, sincerely lack the desire to do so, but seriously-I have worked w/individuals who were raised in homes of addicts and/or dealers and have a completely skewed set of family values, i.e-it's just not right to make drug deliveries to those in treatment facilitaties-shame on you! Just to name one example-so again I ask what are these people to do?  I will also go further in self disclosure-I was an addict for the majority of my life but am not in a 12step program of any type nor do I plan to be in the future.  I do believe in God, and thankfully was raised in a home where basic family values were taught, I don't blame my family for the choices I made leading to my addiction, but I do believe in a genetic predisposition that makes individuals more vulnerable to addiction (silly me, after years of working in detox-seeing approximately 900-1000 people per year and having approximately 90% of those I assessed report some type of biological family history of addiction I tend to believe there is a link).  There are many biochemical changes that occur in the body that make the compulsion to use real.  Earlier I read your opinion that people relapsed simply because it felt good-because they &quot;liked the buzz&quot;  Once again I will self disclose-for many years before I actually quit I had stopped enjoying being a crack addict-oh, i don't know, maybe it was the accompanying psychosis along with wasting syndrome, dragging myself through shit to get the drug, or maybe it was the times my body temperature shot up suddenly and dangerously-making me feel as if I was going to die that made &quot;the buzz&quot; less enjoyable-yet I continued to use.  I only stopped when the family who I hold so dear finally said, &quot;go away and don't come back&quot;.  But to be truthful I didn't go straight then either I went to marijuana maintenance.  I suppose it was a variety of changes and occurrences that led to me finally getting and staying straight-none of which had anything to do with 12step programs or RR.  I was suffering from untreated Major Depression and ADHD and finally got those problems treated and under control-although I don't believe this was a cause of my addiction-I don't look for the cause since this is an act of futility and I wasted entirely too much time being a junkie and don't plan to waste more by asking irrelevant questions like &quot;why me?&quot;.  I married a &quot;square&quot; who helped me to see I could be more-I love my &quot;square&quot; dearly to this day-we have been married almost 10years.  I returned to school and for the first time in my life not only completed something voluntarily but did so on the President's List at the school I attended.  When my advisor suggested I obtain my addiction counselor's liscence (LCDC) I balked with the response that I would not, that I had spent most of my life around lying, cheating, conniving junkies and much  like you, believed that would get better when they were ready.  Alas, I decided to get my LCDC as an added credential for my degree as well as give me an opportunity to get a better paying job-as pathetic as that sounds at the time I was only making $7.00 per hour.  I have seen and learned so much since 1998 when I began my internship.  I have learned that the sickness, disease, illness whatever you choose to call it, is real.  There are significant biological changes that occur in a long time chronic substance abuser.  I have learned that outside of nicotine alcohol is the most toxic substance of abuse a person can use.  I have learned that if one educates oneself on the biochemical consequences of addiction and follow basic and good life principles like eating right, exercising, getting enough sleep, and work towards self improvement and enlightenment one can get better.  I have also seen the consequences of making addiction or the dreaded relapse all about character strength or lack of moral values-this can be just as devestating.  I guess what I want to say is that I don't agree with you but I don't need to-other people seem to be responsive to your program, and it is a program.  I don't attend AA or NA but alot of people get better in those programs also.  When I counsel my patients or clients I don't take the approach of one size fits all.  What is a persons recovery is what works for that person-what helps that person meet their potential without hurting others around them.  I find you to be abrasive and you seem to dislike it when people who write you don't agree but I am writing anyway-I guess maybe I am addicted to writing too!  Maybe I should contact those silly professors from Stanford University who have likely never finished a book!  You might decide to only put segments of this on your blog if any and thats ok too-I don't need the validation nor do I fear your harsh judgement of my &quot;bullshit&quot; ideas or beliefs.  If you do post this I hope anyone who reads this will take it for what it is-embrace who you are, the good and the bad, and you will find a way that works for you.  It doesn't have to be a program already created by others with an agenda-the best program I found was the one I made for myself and that program is holistic and it is receptive to new ideas and opinions, even yours Mr. Trimpey.  God Bless

&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Heather, when I look upon your many words, I wonder what you’ve said. At the least, you’ve made me more self-conscious about my inclination toward verbosity.

My main comment, other than to congratulate you for finally seizing control of your personal conduct, is that you seem unaware that you actually did seize control, and that your uplifted feelings since that accomplishment are the natural reward for accepting adult responsibilities. You still see through the eyes of addiction; if you take &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://rational.org/recover.html &quot;&gt;The Crash Course,&lt;/a&gt; your vision might improve.
You conveyed that your inability to revive the astonishing buzz proves you smoked for the sheer pleasure of it. Nothing personal, but this is the oldest story in the book, i.e., “I don’t know why I use. I don’t know what I was thinking,” etc. When you dragged yourself through shit to get to the dealer, you knew exactly what you were hoping for, and you certainly weren’t paying for something you hoped would make you feel bad. From the start, crack made your sexual awakening seem like tiny candle before the roaring fires of crack’s addictive pleasures. That is why you became a slave to the Beast, and lived in the proverbial barnyard, forsaking all else. Sadly, you now explain your immorality as nutritional deficiency, or some other vague predeliction, and regurgitate vapid recovery doctrines rather than frame your experience in common language.

Everyone starts in a childhood family where the daily drama forms original family values. We can learn much from the shortcomings of our parents, and even learn kindness from being treated with cruelty. Having addicted parents doesn’t destroy children; it may just as well educate them to the evils of habitual vice. Your view of troubled families is dark; there’s more good there than you think.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to begin by saying I work in the addiction counseling field and face many of the frustrations you speak of so freely.  I do wonder, Mr. Trimpey, what is the individual who was raised without basic decent family values to do?  I admit I have not read your AVRT based recovery information and after reading your home page, sincerely lack the desire to do so, but seriously-I have worked w/individuals who were raised in homes of addicts and/or dealers and have a completely skewed set of family values, i.e-it&#8217;s just not right to make drug deliveries to those in treatment facilitaties-shame on you! Just to name one example-so again I ask what are these people to do?  I will also go further in self disclosure-I was an addict for the majority of my life but am not in a 12step program of any type nor do I plan to be in the future.  I do believe in God, and thankfully was raised in a home where basic family values were taught, I don&#8217;t blame my family for the choices I made leading to my addiction, but I do believe in a genetic predisposition that makes individuals more vulnerable to addiction (silly me, after years of working in detox-seeing approximately 900-1000 people per year and having approximately 90% of those I assessed report some type of biological family history of addiction I tend to believe there is a link).  There are many biochemical changes that occur in the body that make the compulsion to use real.  Earlier I read your opinion that people relapsed simply because it felt good-because they &#8220;liked the buzz&#8221;  Once again I will self disclose-for many years before I actually quit I had stopped enjoying being a crack addict-oh, i don&#8217;t know, maybe it was the accompanying psychosis along with wasting syndrome, dragging myself through shit to get the drug, or maybe it was the times my body temperature shot up suddenly and dangerously-making me feel as if I was going to die that made &#8220;the buzz&#8221; less enjoyable-yet I continued to use.  I only stopped when the family who I hold so dear finally said, &#8220;go away and don&#8217;t come back&#8221;.  But to be truthful I didn&#8217;t go straight then either I went to marijuana maintenance.  I suppose it was a variety of changes and occurrences that led to me finally getting and staying straight-none of which had anything to do with 12step programs or RR.  I was suffering from untreated Major Depression and ADHD and finally got those problems treated and under control-although I don&#8217;t believe this was a cause of my addiction-I don&#8217;t look for the cause since this is an act of futility and I wasted entirely too much time being a junkie and don&#8217;t plan to waste more by asking irrelevant questions like &#8220;why me?&#8221;.  I married a &#8220;square&#8221; who helped me to see I could be more-I love my &#8220;square&#8221; dearly to this day-we have been married almost 10years.  I returned to school and for the first time in my life not only completed something voluntarily but did so on the President&#8217;s List at the school I attended.  When my advisor suggested I obtain my addiction counselor&#8217;s liscence (LCDC) I balked with the response that I would not, that I had spent most of my life around lying, cheating, conniving junkies and much  like you, believed that would get better when they were ready.  Alas, I decided to get my LCDC as an added credential for my degree as well as give me an opportunity to get a better paying job-as pathetic as that sounds at the time I was only making $7.00 per hour.  I have seen and learned so much since 1998 when I began my internship.  I have learned that the sickness, disease, illness whatever you choose to call it, is real.  There are significant biological changes that occur in a long time chronic substance abuser.  I have learned that outside of nicotine alcohol is the most toxic substance of abuse a person can use.  I have learned that if one educates oneself on the biochemical consequences of addiction and follow basic and good life principles like eating right, exercising, getting enough sleep, and work towards self improvement and enlightenment one can get better.  I have also seen the consequences of making addiction or the dreaded relapse all about character strength or lack of moral values-this can be just as devestating.  I guess what I want to say is that I don&#8217;t agree with you but I don&#8217;t need to-other people seem to be responsive to your program, and it is a program.  I don&#8217;t attend AA or NA but alot of people get better in those programs also.  When I counsel my patients or clients I don&#8217;t take the approach of one size fits all.  What is a persons recovery is what works for that person-what helps that person meet their potential without hurting others around them.  I find you to be abrasive and you seem to dislike it when people who write you don&#8217;t agree but I am writing anyway-I guess maybe I am addicted to writing too!  Maybe I should contact those silly professors from Stanford University who have likely never finished a book!  You might decide to only put segments of this on your blog if any and thats ok too-I don&#8217;t need the validation nor do I fear your harsh judgement of my &#8220;bullshit&#8221; ideas or beliefs.  If you do post this I hope anyone who reads this will take it for what it is-embrace who you are, the good and the bad, and you will find a way that works for you.  It doesn&#8217;t have to be a program already created by others with an agenda-the best program I found was the one I made for myself and that program is holistic and it is receptive to new ideas and opinions, even yours Mr. Trimpey.  God Bless</p>
<hr /><br />
<blockquote><p>Heather, when I look upon your many words, I wonder what you’ve said. At the least, you’ve made me more self-conscious about my inclination toward verbosity.</p>
<p>My main comment, other than to congratulate you for finally seizing control of your personal conduct, is that you seem unaware that you actually did seize control, and that your uplifted feelings since that accomplishment are the natural reward for accepting adult responsibilities. You still see through the eyes of addiction; if you take <a target="_blank" href="http://rational.org/recover.html ">The Crash Course,</a> your vision might improve.<br />
You conveyed that your inability to revive the astonishing buzz proves you smoked for the sheer pleasure of it. Nothing personal, but this is the oldest story in the book, i.e., “I don’t know why I use. I don’t know what I was thinking,” etc. When you dragged yourself through shit to get to the dealer, you knew exactly what you were hoping for, and you certainly weren’t paying for something you hoped would make you feel bad. From the start, crack made your sexual awakening seem like tiny candle before the roaring fires of crack’s addictive pleasures. That is why you became a slave to the Beast, and lived in the proverbial barnyard, forsaking all else. Sadly, you now explain your immorality as nutritional deficiency, or some other vague predeliction, and regurgitate vapid recovery doctrines rather than frame your experience in common language.</p>
<p>Everyone starts in a childhood family where the daily drama forms original family values. We can learn much from the shortcomings of our parents, and even learn kindness from being treated with cruelty. Having addicted parents doesn’t destroy children; it may just as well educate them to the evils of habitual vice. Your view of troubled families is dark; there’s more good there than you think.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Dan B</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-3567</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-3567</guid>
					<description>Didn't this begin as a dabate about drug courts?  The drug court in my area mandates 12-stepping.  It's easy to see why.  By helping addicts convince themselves they are in a cycle of relapse/recovery they fuel the correctional and rehabilitation industries (at the expense of taxpayers) by revolving the same people in and out over and over for years until the addict either dies or gets it.  All the while maximizing the penalties and fines extracted from said addict.  I'm not an apologist for a substace abusers illegal behaviour, but I believe it's criminal to inflict additional years of suffering on sick people for profit and beacause they'll go along with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t this begin as a dabate about drug courts?  The drug court in my area mandates 12-stepping.  It&#8217;s easy to see why.  By helping addicts convince themselves they are in a cycle of relapse/recovery they fuel the correctional and rehabilitation industries (at the expense of taxpayers) by revolving the same people in and out over and over for years until the addict either dies or gets it.  All the while maximizing the penalties and fines extracted from said addict.  I&#8217;m not an apologist for a substace abusers illegal behaviour, but I believe it&#8217;s criminal to inflict additional years of suffering on sick people for profit and beacause they&#8217;ll go along with it.
</p>
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		<title>by: Rob B</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-2103</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 07:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-2103</guid>
					<description>Recently I heard an AA member use a term that I had never heard before.
The quote was, &quot;I did two years of clean time before I relapsed.&quot;
&quot;Clean time&quot; refers to the length of time being sober.
What confounds me is the insinuation of &quot;doing time&quot;, as in prison time.
AA promotes and propagates the wacky idea that deciding to permanently abstain from getting loaded results in  problems (difficulties with spouse / realizing you have the emotional development of a 3 year old / etc.), and the phrase &quot;clean time&quot; may reflect that. I can appreciate the analogy to prison time for when someone was using, but referring to &quot;clean time&quot; implies that someone is locked in their personal prison no matter if they use or not. Either way, I guess we are screwed, &quot;doing time&quot;.
One last thing:
When I occasionally speak about the concept of AVRT to friends, the reply that I hate the most is, &quot;Oh it can't be that easy!&quot;
PURE 100% BEAST!
Do you have a good reply to that Jack?
&lt;blockquote&gt;Rob,

12-steppers are in a self-made prison that occasionally serves “relapses,”  just to keep things a little interesting. When shown the way out, they rage against the leader. As though on parole, they expect their families to accommodate the rules of addiction, living under the cloud of one-day-at-a-time uncertainty.
Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently I heard an AA member use a term that I had never heard before.<br />
The quote was, &#8220;I did two years of clean time before I relapsed.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Clean time&#8221; refers to the length of time being sober.<br />
What confounds me is the insinuation of &#8220;doing time&#8221;, as in prison time.<br />
AA promotes and propagates the wacky idea that deciding to permanently abstain from getting loaded results in  problems (difficulties with spouse / realizing you have the emotional development of a 3 year old / etc.), and the phrase &#8220;clean time&#8221; may reflect that. I can appreciate the analogy to prison time for when someone was using, but referring to &#8220;clean time&#8221; implies that someone is locked in their personal prison no matter if they use or not. Either way, I guess we are screwed, &#8220;doing time&#8221;.<br />
One last thing:<br />
When I occasionally speak about the concept of AVRT to friends, the reply that I hate the most is, &#8220;Oh it can&#8217;t be that easy!&#8221;<br />
PURE 100% BEAST!<br />
Do you have a good reply to that Jack?</p>
<blockquote><p>Rob,</p>
<p>12-steppers are in a self-made prison that occasionally serves “relapses,”  just to keep things a little interesting. When shown the way out, they rage against the leader. As though on parole, they expect their families to accommodate the rules of addiction, living under the cloud of one-day-at-a-time uncertainty.<br />
Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: chris b</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-1134</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-1134</guid>
					<description>Mr. Trimpey,
I found your dialogue with Jason L quite interesting. Your responses were succient, not being baited with his psychological medical union &quot;bullshit.&quot; Jason needs to relax and enjoy his &quot;found&quot; sobriety with
AA and their teachings. Being a free thinker, he should respect that we are all in the same boat, with RR we tossed the oars, are no longer adrift, and have found a  home port.
Thank you Mr. Trimpey for saying it like it is. Abstinence is a choice.
Happy New Year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Trimpey,<br />
I found your dialogue with Jason L quite interesting. Your responses were succient, not being baited with his psychological medical union &#8220;bullshit.&#8221; Jason needs to relax and enjoy his &#8220;found&#8221; sobriety with<br />
AA and their teachings. Being a free thinker, he should respect that we are all in the same boat, with RR we tossed the oars, are no longer adrift, and have found a  home port.<br />
Thank you Mr. Trimpey for saying it like it is. Abstinence is a choice.<br />
Happy New Year!
</p>
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		<title>by: Suzanne Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-646</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-646</guid>
					<description>As I was reading this communication I was thinking that Jason was indeed a RR participant although confused about where to point his gratitude. He beat this addiction on his own. AA did not help him. It was just a place he felt like he had to go to stay sober (brainwashed from treatment no doubt).
I went to a 12 step treatment to detox (vicodin) but pressure from home caused me to stay 3 more week. It was the worst. I knew right away that aa was not for me. I rejected the meetings, the step studies, morning prayer (I do not believe in higher power including god) and the rest of it. I did enjoy the lectures on medical stuff, all science. I could not wait to leave. I satisfied my family (husband, mother, sister and adult children) but I never intended to do the aa or share stuff at meetings. I knew I could do it with sheer willpower. I am proud and will not will not use or drink. I quit alcohol when I was 32, 17 years ago on my own. I just had had enough with the hangovers and being a drunk. I woke up and told myself that was it and I never drank again. I love RR. I have been spreading the word of your web-page and have had a couple friends from rehab embrace your ideas on recover.
Jason is struggling with himself. He need to pat himself on the back and say &quot;well done Jason, you did this on your own&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I was reading this communication I was thinking that Jason was indeed a RR participant although confused about where to point his gratitude. He beat this addiction on his own. AA did not help him. It was just a place he felt like he had to go to stay sober (brainwashed from treatment no doubt).<br />
I went to a 12 step treatment to detox (vicodin) but pressure from home caused me to stay 3 more week. It was the worst. I knew right away that aa was not for me. I rejected the meetings, the step studies, morning prayer (I do not believe in higher power including god) and the rest of it. I did enjoy the lectures on medical stuff, all science. I could not wait to leave. I satisfied my family (husband, mother, sister and adult children) but I never intended to do the aa or share stuff at meetings. I knew I could do it with sheer willpower. I am proud and will not will not use or drink. I quit alcohol when I was 32, 17 years ago on my own. I just had had enough with the hangovers and being a drunk. I woke up and told myself that was it and I never drank again. I love RR. I have been spreading the word of your web-page and have had a couple friends from rehab embrace your ideas on recover.<br />
Jason is struggling with himself. He need to pat himself on the back and say &#8220;well done Jason, you did this on your own&#8221;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jason Lovelace</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-592</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 15:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-592</guid>
					<description>I am a sober member of a 12-step program, and also a graduate student in biochemistry. I am a free thinker, but also respect the experience of the people who helped me to get and stay sober. I am an active member in my 12-step program, but I do not believe 12-step programs have a monopoly on knowledge related to addiction. I know today that 12-step recovery has worked miracles in my life, things I could not have done (or even imagined) on my own; at the same time, I have no illusions that 12-step recovery is not the cure-all for everyone.

[snip]
I just realized - I used my last name in our dialogue, and in order to maintain my anonymity and respect the traditions of 12-step recovery, could you please edit my last name to “L.” on my posts, or delete the last post entirely? I have noth my personal and professional anonymity to consider.

I understand you take exception with the 12 Traditions, but they are important to me, and hope you will extend me the consideration.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Mr. Lovelace,

I see. You come here trying to suppress information on AVRT-based recovery, but conveniently forget to disclose that you are a 12-stepper, loyal to the program that AVRT® exposes as crippling indoctrination. In your AA mode, you must not appear to speak for AA, nor may you engage in any controversy about AA because AA has no opinions about anything.

&lt;img align=&quot;right&quot; style=&quot;width: 176px; height: 264px&quot; src=&quot;http://www.rational.org/img/maaskedmaan.jpg&quot; /&gt;Then, I called you out, and you were torn between honesty and loyalty to AA. You came clean and disclosed your affiliation, as well as your implicit political agenda. You are a “two-hatter.” In other words, you took off your normal-man hat and put on your crazy AA hat. However, in choosing honesty, you are now disloyal to your personal savior, AA. You are discovered &lt;em&gt;speaking for AA,&lt;/em&gt; engaged in hot controversy with a well-known detractor of AA. So, you want the freedom to speak out against independent recovery, but without disclosing your hidden political agenda. You want to sound like a scientist while representing AA, which is serving two masters, a bizarre conflict of interest.

Your duplicity here is &lt;em&gt;precisely&lt;/em&gt; how our social service system is being destroyed by 12-step social cultism. No agency has ever chosen to force AA on its clients justified by any supportive research. It is always a political decision, based upon unfounded, exaggerated claims of “two-hatters” who remain anonymous, very much like KKK members in government once anonymously set social policies favoring its own political agenda.

Today, our social service system has been transformed into a gigantic funnel into AA/NA, which is the feeder system for the addiction treatment industry. Almost all of the substance abuse counselors and addiction treatment specialists are themselves members of AA/NA, ensnaring their clients in the same quicksand that sucked them down years ago, and no one, not even you, ever recovers for fear of becoming a hopeless dry-drunk. Because of &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.rational.org/pdf_files/nasw_complaint.pdf&quot;&gt;“two-hatters”&lt;/a&gt; like you, millions of men and women languish in one-day-at-a-time sobriety, depressed that their lives have been permanently altered to accommodate the pretend disease of addiction, hopeless for the freedom and dignity of independent living.

Now that your mask has been removed, you want me to participate in your deception, so that visitors to the RR website won’t know who you are. The real deception is that you are somehow at risk for breaking anonymity, that your fragile “sobriety” is at risk, that you might now explode into drunkenness, and that I will somehow be responsible for damages resulting from your tantrum. This is exactly the kind emotional blackmail that 12-step recovery pulls on families, who are expected to be supportive of their sacred alcoholic, and tolerate all of the weirdness and arrogance of one-day-at-a-time sobriety, and “Sorry, honey, but my recovery comes first.”

I want every reader to understand clearly that it is entirely unnecessary to bow to the sacred alcoholic for fear that forthright honesty might cause one to go stark, raving mad. I want readers to become more challenging, inquisitive, and demanding of good explanations about 12-step recovery. Most of all, I want everyone to reject the terribly misguided idea that members of AA are entited to anonymity when they take part in public discourse, and especially when they participate in &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; activity affecting social policy.

Like the masked man in the picture above, so-called “alcoholics” are nothing more nor less than self-excusing asses who stubbornly refuse to totally abandon their addictions, and aggressively stand in the way of others doing so, exactly as you have attempted to do, here, Mr. Lovelace.

Your plea for anonymity, Mr. Lovelace, is denied.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a sober member of a 12-step program, and also a graduate student in biochemistry. I am a free thinker, but also respect the experience of the people who helped me to get and stay sober. I am an active member in my 12-step program, but I do not believe 12-step programs have a monopoly on knowledge related to addiction. I know today that 12-step recovery has worked miracles in my life, things I could not have done (or even imagined) on my own; at the same time, I have no illusions that 12-step recovery is not the cure-all for everyone.</p>
<p>[snip]<br />
I just realized - I used my last name in our dialogue, and in order to maintain my anonymity and respect the traditions of 12-step recovery, could you please edit my last name to “L.” on my posts, or delete the last post entirely? I have noth my personal and professional anonymity to consider.</p>
<p>I understand you take exception with the 12 Traditions, but they are important to me, and hope you will extend me the consideration.</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. Lovelace,</p>
<p>I see. You come here trying to suppress information on AVRT-based recovery, but conveniently forget to disclose that you are a 12-stepper, loyal to the program that AVRT® exposes as crippling indoctrination. In your AA mode, you must not appear to speak for AA, nor may you engage in any controversy about AA because AA has no opinions about anything.</p>
<p><img align="right" style="width: 176px; height: 264px" src="http://www.rational.org/img/maaskedmaan.jpg" />Then, I called you out, and you were torn between honesty and loyalty to AA. You came clean and disclosed your affiliation, as well as your implicit political agenda. You are a “two-hatter.” In other words, you took off your normal-man hat and put on your crazy AA hat. However, in choosing honesty, you are now disloyal to your personal savior, AA. You are discovered <em>speaking for AA,</em> engaged in hot controversy with a well-known detractor of AA. So, you want the freedom to speak out against independent recovery, but without disclosing your hidden political agenda. You want to sound like a scientist while representing AA, which is serving two masters, a bizarre conflict of interest.</p>
<p>Your duplicity here is <em>precisely</em> how our social service system is being destroyed by 12-step social cultism. No agency has ever chosen to force AA on its clients justified by any supportive research. It is always a political decision, based upon unfounded, exaggerated claims of “two-hatters” who remain anonymous, very much like KKK members in government once anonymously set social policies favoring its own political agenda.</p>
<p>Today, our social service system has been transformed into a gigantic funnel into AA/NA, which is the feeder system for the addiction treatment industry. Almost all of the substance abuse counselors and addiction treatment specialists are themselves members of AA/NA, ensnaring their clients in the same quicksand that sucked them down years ago, and no one, not even you, ever recovers for fear of becoming a hopeless dry-drunk. Because of <a target="_blank" href="http://www.rational.org/pdf_files/nasw_complaint.pdf">“two-hatters”</a> like you, millions of men and women languish in one-day-at-a-time sobriety, depressed that their lives have been permanently altered to accommodate the pretend disease of addiction, hopeless for the freedom and dignity of independent living.</p>
<p>Now that your mask has been removed, you want me to participate in your deception, so that visitors to the RR website won’t know who you are. The real deception is that you are somehow at risk for breaking anonymity, that your fragile “sobriety” is at risk, that you might now explode into drunkenness, and that I will somehow be responsible for damages resulting from your tantrum. This is exactly the kind emotional blackmail that 12-step recovery pulls on families, who are expected to be supportive of their sacred alcoholic, and tolerate all of the weirdness and arrogance of one-day-at-a-time sobriety, and “Sorry, honey, but my recovery comes first.”</p>
<p>I want every reader to understand clearly that it is entirely unnecessary to bow to the sacred alcoholic for fear that forthright honesty might cause one to go stark, raving mad. I want readers to become more challenging, inquisitive, and demanding of good explanations about 12-step recovery. Most of all, I want everyone to reject the terribly misguided idea that members of AA are entited to anonymity when they take part in public discourse, and especially when they participate in <em>any</em> activity affecting social policy.</p>
<p>Like the masked man in the picture above, so-called “alcoholics” are nothing more nor less than self-excusing asses who stubbornly refuse to totally abandon their addictions, and aggressively stand in the way of others doing so, exactly as you have attempted to do, here, Mr. Lovelace.</p>
<p>Your plea for anonymity, Mr. Lovelace, is denied.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Jason Lovelace</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-581</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 02:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-581</guid>
					<description>If, as you say, you system is &quot;perfect&quot; (and mind you, no psychological or medical treatment ever evented even approaches that standard, due to the massive diversity of human physiology), then it should work in 100% of all cases, and be demonstrated as such in a clinical setting. Are you willing to assert that AVRT would acheive those results in clinical studies?
&lt;blockquote&gt;AVRT® is perfectly perfect. However, you are looking at addicted people as specimens, not as human beings endowed with free will. You believe that self-intoxication has hidden causes that may be identified and treated, with the outcome that one no longer is driven to drink/use. You think that AVRT® is a treatment for addiction. As I already said, you have not read with comprehension. In AVRT-based recovery, one is free to choose between addiction and recovery, in the moral dimension where self-intoxication is immoral conduct. — JT&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Mr. Trimpey, from reading about AVRT, you seem to be very interested in the interaction between human physiology and the psychology of addiction (beast brain/new brain, etc.). Yet you term the physiological study of the disease &quot;bullshit&quot; and go so far as to selectively edit posts so you can frame a discussion in only terms you are comfortable with. Reader, take note of that as well; scientific/medical research that does not fit into Mr. Trimpey's hierarchy of belief is &quot;bullshit&quot;. How very rational of him.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I offer the Structural Model of Addiction, which is a gradeschool-level presentation of a healthy, human brain, free of disease, generating robust desires for physical pleasure that sustain physical survival. Because no addictive disease has ever been identified, I take the license of identify addiction research itself as bullshit. I use the criteria of “bullshit” set forth by Harry G. Frankfurt, in his definitive book, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Bullshit-Harry-G-Frankfurt/dp/0691122946/sr=1-1/qid=1160947645/ref=sr_1_1/103-6254723-2291025?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&quot;&gt;On Bullshit&lt;/a&gt;, which remains in the top 1000 amazon.com best-sellers almost all the time. By those criteria, I am certain that you are bullshitting. Your comments are those of someone who has not defeated an addiction, or one who has not been addicted.

(If you insist, I will restore the original paragraph which I mercifully edited in the interest of readability.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Until there is a comprehensive union between psychological (&quot;addictive voice&quot;, &quot;spiritual disease&quot;, &quot;powerlessness&quot;) and medical understanding of addiction, no single approach will do anything but make a dent in the number of people who gain long term meaningful recovery, be it AVRT, 12 Steps, etc.
&lt;blockquote&gt;This is a perfect example of Frankfurtian bullshit. You are speaking without knowledge of what you speak. There is no need for any involvement of medical or other counseling professionals, because there is no disease or inherent defect to be treated. In fact, those individuals are responsible for a public health catastrophe, mass, runaway addiction to alcohol and other drugs. The disease concept of addiction and its attendant rituals of recoveryism destroy more lives than addiction itself, mainly by forcefully contradicting original family values that are sufficient for anyone to abruptly and permanently recover. Simply allowing the natural consequences of addiction to pile up, including the moral indignation of everyone affected, will result in more recovery than all of our addiction treatment centers combined.

However, it’s time for you to come clean, Jason. Tell us about your day job and any personal involvement you have with addiction or recovery. Because you appear so dense with respect to AVRT-based recovery, I am beginning to suspect you are either in recovery or a treatment specialist yourself.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If, as you say, you system is &#8220;perfect&#8221; (and mind you, no psychological or medical treatment ever evented even approaches that standard, due to the massive diversity of human physiology), then it should work in 100% of all cases, and be demonstrated as such in a clinical setting. Are you willing to assert that AVRT would acheive those results in clinical studies?</p>
<blockquote><p>AVRT® is perfectly perfect. However, you are looking at addicted people as specimens, not as human beings endowed with free will. You believe that self-intoxication has hidden causes that may be identified and treated, with the outcome that one no longer is driven to drink/use. You think that AVRT® is a treatment for addiction. As I already said, you have not read with comprehension. In AVRT-based recovery, one is free to choose between addiction and recovery, in the moral dimension where self-intoxication is immoral conduct. — JT</p></blockquote>
<p>Mr. Trimpey, from reading about AVRT, you seem to be very interested in the interaction between human physiology and the psychology of addiction (beast brain/new brain, etc.). Yet you term the physiological study of the disease &#8220;bullshit&#8221; and go so far as to selectively edit posts so you can frame a discussion in only terms you are comfortable with. Reader, take note of that as well; scientific/medical research that does not fit into Mr. Trimpey&#8217;s hierarchy of belief is &#8220;bullshit&#8221;. How very rational of him.</p>
<blockquote><p>I offer the Structural Model of Addiction, which is a gradeschool-level presentation of a healthy, human brain, free of disease, generating robust desires for physical pleasure that sustain physical survival. Because no addictive disease has ever been identified, I take the license of identify addiction research itself as bullshit. I use the criteria of “bullshit” set forth by Harry G. Frankfurt, in his definitive book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Bullshit-Harry-G-Frankfurt/dp/0691122946/sr=1-1/qid=1160947645/ref=sr_1_1/103-6254723-2291025?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books">On Bullshit</a>, which remains in the top 1000 amazon.com best-sellers almost all the time. By those criteria, I am certain that you are bullshitting. Your comments are those of someone who has not defeated an addiction, or one who has not been addicted.</p>
<p>(If you insist, I will restore the original paragraph which I mercifully edited in the interest of readability.)</p></blockquote>
<p>Until there is a comprehensive union between psychological (&#8221;addictive voice&#8221;, &#8220;spiritual disease&#8221;, &#8220;powerlessness&#8221;) and medical understanding of addiction, no single approach will do anything but make a dent in the number of people who gain long term meaningful recovery, be it AVRT, 12 Steps, etc.</p>
<blockquote><p>This is a perfect example of Frankfurtian bullshit. You are speaking without knowledge of what you speak. There is no need for any involvement of medical or other counseling professionals, because there is no disease or inherent defect to be treated. In fact, those individuals are responsible for a public health catastrophe, mass, runaway addiction to alcohol and other drugs. The disease concept of addiction and its attendant rituals of recoveryism destroy more lives than addiction itself, mainly by forcefully contradicting original family values that are sufficient for anyone to abruptly and permanently recover. Simply allowing the natural consequences of addiction to pile up, including the moral indignation of everyone affected, will result in more recovery than all of our addiction treatment centers combined.</p>
<p>However, it’s time for you to come clean, Jason. Tell us about your day job and any personal involvement you have with addiction or recovery. Because you appear so dense with respect to AVRT-based recovery, I am beginning to suspect you are either in recovery or a treatment specialist yourself.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Jason Lovelace</title>
		<link>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-576</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.rational.org/blog/28/#comment-576</guid>
					<description>I have read with comprehension, I may just not agree with a number of your intial assumptions.

You use the word &quot;relapse&quot; in terms that suggest you view it with the same scepticism a non-believer might view an exorcism, an &quot;event&quot; that exists only in the mind of delusional people.

…Medical research has demonstrated conculsively that alcohol and drug abuse result in craving following detoxification. In many cases, people may succumb to these cravings through a process where physiological processes affect mental ones. Do you dispute these aspects of addiction physiology?

Are you asserting that all instances where a person has undergone detoxification from immediate physiological affects of drugs, and then reingests the substance of choice is an example of moral or intellectual failure alone?
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Jason, “relapse” is a fictional event that exists in the minds of addicted people. Relapses are simply personal parties, for the purpose of pleasure without regard for the suffering of others. In other words, relapses are immoral conduct. Addicted people have yummy relapses for any reason at all, including great tragedies over which they would otherwise grieve and weep.
&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Addiction research is like professional wrestling: muscular showbiz. Not a single addicted person has been helped by the outcome of scientific research into the nature of addiction or recovery. &lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;“Craving” is Addictive Voice biobabble for “want” or “desire.” You have read with no comprehension at all. I doubt you have read anything about AVRT®, except trying to find loopholes. There aren’t any, because AVRT® is already perfect. Yes, perfect!&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Readers, I have edited Jason's post, above, which was originally written in the idiom of scientific bullshit. The Addictive Voice element, however, has been preserved, however.
&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Jack Trimpey  &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read with comprehension, I may just not agree with a number of your intial assumptions.</p>
<p>You use the word &#8220;relapse&#8221; in terms that suggest you view it with the same scepticism a non-believer might view an exorcism, an &#8220;event&#8221; that exists only in the mind of delusional people.</p>
<p>…Medical research has demonstrated conculsively that alcohol and drug abuse result in craving following detoxification. In many cases, people may succumb to these cravings through a process where physiological processes affect mental ones. Do you dispute these aspects of addiction physiology?</p>
<p>Are you asserting that all instances where a person has undergone detoxification from immediate physiological affects of drugs, and then reingests the substance of choice is an example of moral or intellectual failure alone?</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Jason, “relapse” is a fictional event that exists in the minds of addicted people. Relapses are simply personal parties, for the purpose of pleasure without regard for the suffering of others. In other words, relapses are immoral conduct. Addicted people have yummy relapses for any reason at all, including great tragedies over which they would otherwise grieve and weep.<br />
</em></p>
<p><em>Addiction research is like professional wrestling: muscular showbiz. Not a single addicted person has been helped by the outcome of scientific research into the nature of addiction or recovery. </em></p>
<p><em>“Craving” is Addictive Voice biobabble for “want” or “desire.” You have read with no comprehension at all. I doubt you have read anything about AVRT®, except trying to find loopholes. There aren’t any, because AVRT® is already perfect. Yes, perfect!</em></p>
<p><em>Readers, I have edited Jason&#8217;s post, above, which was originally written in the idiom of scientific bullshit. The Addictive Voice element, however, has been preserved, however.<br />
</em></p>
<p><em>Jack Trimpey  </em></p></blockquote>
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