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	<title>Comments on: Fellowships of Addiction</title>
	<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/</link>
	<description>Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, AA, 12-step</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

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		<title>by: JOE</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-13428</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 04:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-13428</guid>
					<description>My RR adventure began the day of my first and only DUI, May of 2006. The day after the incident I began rehearsing a way to quit drinking. A trip to the bookstore led me to stumble, excuse the expression, onto Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. A weel later I made my Big Plan, and I was a recovered individual. I could feel it in my bones. The concept of AVRT is simple. The variables are eliminated and the choice to relapse into stupid behavior is eliminated. In fact, the term “relapse” doesn’t exist in AVRT. I learned to recognize the source of my misguided behavior and tell “it,” the Beast, where to stick it.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Joe,

You are the example that all addicted people should live up to. The purpose of the laws against drunk driving has been met, and you have far exceeded the meager standards set by the 12-step syndicate, which writes the laws, policies, and regulations of our court system. The public has a very strong interest in abstinence among drunk drivers, but no legitimate interests in how you become abstinent.

The state has given every drunk driver two licenses — the license to drink (age of majority), and the license to drive. Drunk drivers are usually very good drivers but incompetent drinkers. In every jurisdiction, however, courts now suspend and revoke the drivers license but refuse to revoke the drinking licenses of drunk drivers. Even more amazing, is that drunk drivers may not revoke their own drinking licenses; the state assumes that offenders will continue drinking unless they affiliate with AA, where they may not summarily quit drinking, but must reserve the option to have “relapses.” Then, they must admit they are powerless over their desire for the pleasure of alcohol and in need of endless moral guidance from irresolute substance abusers. Once these hideous oaths are made, their driver’s licenses are restored.

The recovery group movement is the fellowship of the Beast, into which millions of citizens are funneled each year. Recovery group beliefs and practices are about what one would expect of a collie or other friendly-looking animal. In a society where the dividing line between human beings and animals is becoming more blurred, it isn’t hard to guess why this is so.

All anyone needs to defeat any addiction in a matter of days or weeks may be found in their original selves, their original family values which contained their ancestor’s codes of survival.  AA recoveryism, however, is nothing more nor less than the Code of the Beast.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My RR adventure began the day of my first and only DUI, May of 2006. The day after the incident I began rehearsing a way to quit drinking. A trip to the bookstore led me to stumble, excuse the expression, onto Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. A weel later I made my Big Plan, and I was a recovered individual. I could feel it in my bones. The concept of AVRT is simple. The variables are eliminated and the choice to relapse into stupid behavior is eliminated. In fact, the term “relapse” doesn’t exist in AVRT. I learned to recognize the source of my misguided behavior and tell “it,” the Beast, where to stick it.</p>
<blockquote><p>Joe,</p>
<p>You are the example that all addicted people should live up to. The purpose of the laws against drunk driving has been met, and you have far exceeded the meager standards set by the 12-step syndicate, which writes the laws, policies, and regulations of our court system. The public has a very strong interest in abstinence among drunk drivers, but no legitimate interests in how you become abstinent.</p>
<p>The state has given every drunk driver two licenses — the license to drink (age of majority), and the license to drive. Drunk drivers are usually very good drivers but incompetent drinkers. In every jurisdiction, however, courts now suspend and revoke the drivers license but refuse to revoke the drinking licenses of drunk drivers. Even more amazing, is that drunk drivers may not revoke their own drinking licenses; the state assumes that offenders will continue drinking unless they affiliate with AA, where they may not summarily quit drinking, but must reserve the option to have “relapses.” Then, they must admit they are powerless over their desire for the pleasure of alcohol and in need of endless moral guidance from irresolute substance abusers. Once these hideous oaths are made, their driver’s licenses are restored.</p>
<p>The recovery group movement is the fellowship of the Beast, into which millions of citizens are funneled each year. Recovery group beliefs and practices are about what one would expect of a collie or other friendly-looking animal. In a society where the dividing line between human beings and animals is becoming more blurred, it isn’t hard to guess why this is so.</p>
<p>All anyone needs to defeat any addiction in a matter of days or weeks may be found in their original selves, their original family values which contained their ancestor’s codes of survival.  AA recoveryism, however, is nothing more nor less than the Code of the Beast.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-10377</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-10377</guid>
					<description>I landed at my first AA meeting 3 months after my first drink at the age of 16. I asked for help, and that's what I got. They helped me dignify and excuse 16 years (I am 32 now) of hazardous, deplorable, and outright preposterous behavior. My family bought into it too and I easily manipulated them into tolerating things that nobody with any sense would tolerate.
         So here I am in a big pile of problems. Financial ruin, Destroyed relationships etc...(the usual stuff)
         Know what though? It's over. The NIGHTMARE is OVER.
         Thanks for the tough love Jack, wish I had met you 16 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I landed at my first AA meeting 3 months after my first drink at the age of 16. I asked for help, and that&#8217;s what I got. They helped me dignify and excuse 16 years (I am 32 now) of hazardous, deplorable, and outright preposterous behavior. My family bought into it too and I easily manipulated them into tolerating things that nobody with any sense would tolerate.<br />
         So here I am in a big pile of problems. Financial ruin, Destroyed relationships etc&#8230;(the usual stuff)<br />
         Know what though? It&#8217;s over. The NIGHTMARE is OVER.<br />
         Thanks for the tough love Jack, wish I had met you 16 years ago.
</p>
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		<title>by: Todd</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-5581</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-5581</guid>
					<description>Hello all, I stumbled on RR after thinking there has to be a better way. Well, I read the entire web site, ordered the book &quot;Rational Recovery A New Cure For Addiction&quot;, and made my &quot;big plan&quot;. My last AA meeting was March 15th and I feel great! Funny, but out of all the support in AA, two people have called to see where I have been. It is important to note that I went to 6-8 meetings a week for almost two years. Do you want to know the best part of the last month? My wife and family say I'm not a dry drunk any more. In fact they say I'm my old self again, I just never drink anymore. Did everone get that, I'm the old person that everyone used to love and want to be around, except I never drink now. Man, do I feel liberated. RR is the best thing to happen to me since I stopped drinking...when was that again?

&lt;hr&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Todd,

Congratulations on your independent recovery! Enjoy the good feelings, which are you reward for accepting adult responsibility for your personal conduct. I’m sorry it took so long for you to accidentally discover Rational Recovery, but information on independent recovery is suppressed in our society. Stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, set your confidence for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as your Addictive Voice, and you’ll do fine.

Cheers,

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all, I stumbled on RR after thinking there has to be a better way. Well, I read the entire web site, ordered the book &#8220;Rational Recovery A New Cure For Addiction&#8221;, and made my &#8220;big plan&#8221;. My last AA meeting was March 15th and I feel great! Funny, but out of all the support in AA, two people have called to see where I have been. It is important to note that I went to 6-8 meetings a week for almost two years. Do you want to know the best part of the last month? My wife and family say I&#8217;m not a dry drunk any more. In fact they say I&#8217;m my old self again, I just never drink anymore. Did everone get that, I&#8217;m the old person that everyone used to love and want to be around, except I never drink now. Man, do I feel liberated. RR is the best thing to happen to me since I stopped drinking&#8230;when was that again?</p>
<hr /><br />
<blockquote><p>Todd,</p>
<p>Congratulations on your independent recovery! Enjoy the good feelings, which are you reward for accepting adult responsibility for your personal conduct. I’m sorry it took so long for you to accidentally discover Rational Recovery, but information on independent recovery is suppressed in our society. Stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, set your confidence for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as your Addictive Voice, and you’ll do fine.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Karen</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-5554</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-5554</guid>
					<description>Dear Mr. Trimpsey,

I found your website by searching for alternative methods to Gambler's Anonymous Recovery Groups.  I was intrigued by the information that I had read about AVRT.  I bought your book called Rational Recovery and just finished it. I feel like I have my life back, having been so indoctrinated by being told that I had a disease that could not be cured, but rather by following the 12-Step Program it would be arrested.  I had only been gambling for five months, when I decided something was wrong with what I was doing.  I went to a GA meeting.  I was searching for answers about what was going on with my excessive and expensive problem.  I was told that I was in the right place and handed the GA book.  I needed to identify myself as &quot;My name is Karen and I am a compulsive gambler.&quot; I was horrified by the horror stories and was amazed that I had succumed to an illness and disease. I questioned everything in the book during meetings and continued to gamble.  The parts I had trouble with were with being powerless,having a higher power,surrender and accept , and told I was not working the program by questioning the things I did not understand.  I was told I was in Denial if I thought outside the book.  Finally, after being in the program for six months, I stopped gambling for 8 months. I had sponsers, did the stepwork and attended three meetings per week.  I was determined to beat this thing.  I did much research about gambling addiction and the mechanisms in the brain that supoosedly go on. I also read statistics on recovery-which was very low. I lived the One Day at a Time rule.  Always  living in fear that I may go back out, since the majority of people did in the program.  Sure enough after 8 months I did go back out and continued gambling to the point of no return. I tried to get back into meetings, but my heart could not get into it.  I was told that I really did not want to quit.  The last meeting I went to, I said that I did not want to continue gambling and I did want to continue GA.  Members would call me and say get back in the program, since it worked for you once , you can do it again.  I said I do not believe in GA and the response was that I will never make it out there by myself.  I am proud to say that I am never going to be a loser again. I am never going to bet on slots again.  I know what my Beast tries to do to me and I do not listen to the tricks it plays. I have my will and power over it-it can only get me if I let it.  I am in control of who I am and that is the most exhilerating feeling I have had in 3 years.  Yes, I have everyday life to deal with and yes I have debt as a result of my behavior-but now I can take care of my problems in a responsible manner because I recognise the Active Voice.  I have told GA folks about Rational Recovery and they think I am crazy, but I tell them Recovery Programs are crazy and I am doing just fine.
Thankyou for helping me to help myself.
Karen
&lt;blockquote&gt;Karen,

Sadly, the casino industry is part of the 12-step syndicate. They benefit greatly from the idea that the risks of gambling apply only to persons with an unidentified disease, which may  be diagnosed only after great, irrevocable losses. That way, they can appear to be good samaritans by referring big losers to sensitive, compassionate resources such as Gamblers Anonymous and worthless addiction treatment programs that often cost more than the original losses to gambling.

Tragically, GA does not work, and very often results in &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.rational.org/html_member_area/reasons_cancel.html#anchor3241624&quot;&gt;recovery group disorder&lt;/a&gt;, including the “hitting bottom” concept that practically invites continued desperation at the wagering tables, the track, or the slots. That obviously happened in your case, and this tragedy is repeated in the lives of many thousands of men and women who cannot afford the obligatory “relapses” of 12-step recoveryism.

Your comments will definitely inspire other losers to quit gambling, stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, set their confidence for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice. They will be overjoyed to discover, as you did, that all they need for recovery from “gambling addiction” was learned during childhood, and those original family values may now be put to very good use.

Because AVRT® applies very well to gambling, there is an entire chapter on the Gaming Beast in &lt;em&gt;Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. &lt;/em&gt;In the &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;https://rational.org/subscribe/jo01.php &quot;&gt;Rational Recovery Discussion Forums&lt;/a&gt;, gambling addiction is the topic in the Other Addictions folder.

Enjoy the freedom and dignity of independent recovery! Enjoy the relief of now being safe from yourself, from the casinos, and from the lowlife of Gamber’s Anonymous.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Trimpsey,</p>
<p>I found your website by searching for alternative methods to Gambler&#8217;s Anonymous Recovery Groups.  I was intrigued by the information that I had read about AVRT.  I bought your book called Rational Recovery and just finished it. I feel like I have my life back, having been so indoctrinated by being told that I had a disease that could not be cured, but rather by following the 12-Step Program it would be arrested.  I had only been gambling for five months, when I decided something was wrong with what I was doing.  I went to a GA meeting.  I was searching for answers about what was going on with my excessive and expensive problem.  I was told that I was in the right place and handed the GA book.  I needed to identify myself as &#8220;My name is Karen and I am a compulsive gambler.&#8221; I was horrified by the horror stories and was amazed that I had succumed to an illness and disease. I questioned everything in the book during meetings and continued to gamble.  The parts I had trouble with were with being powerless,having a higher power,surrender and accept , and told I was not working the program by questioning the things I did not understand.  I was told I was in Denial if I thought outside the book.  Finally, after being in the program for six months, I stopped gambling for 8 months. I had sponsers, did the stepwork and attended three meetings per week.  I was determined to beat this thing.  I did much research about gambling addiction and the mechanisms in the brain that supoosedly go on. I also read statistics on recovery-which was very low. I lived the One Day at a Time rule.  Always  living in fear that I may go back out, since the majority of people did in the program.  Sure enough after 8 months I did go back out and continued gambling to the point of no return. I tried to get back into meetings, but my heart could not get into it.  I was told that I really did not want to quit.  The last meeting I went to, I said that I did not want to continue gambling and I did want to continue GA.  Members would call me and say get back in the program, since it worked for you once , you can do it again.  I said I do not believe in GA and the response was that I will never make it out there by myself.  I am proud to say that I am never going to be a loser again. I am never going to bet on slots again.  I know what my Beast tries to do to me and I do not listen to the tricks it plays. I have my will and power over it-it can only get me if I let it.  I am in control of who I am and that is the most exhilerating feeling I have had in 3 years.  Yes, I have everyday life to deal with and yes I have debt as a result of my behavior-but now I can take care of my problems in a responsible manner because I recognise the Active Voice.  I have told GA folks about Rational Recovery and they think I am crazy, but I tell them Recovery Programs are crazy and I am doing just fine.<br />
Thankyou for helping me to help myself.<br />
Karen</p>
<blockquote><p>Karen,</p>
<p>Sadly, the casino industry is part of the 12-step syndicate. They benefit greatly from the idea that the risks of gambling apply only to persons with an unidentified disease, which may  be diagnosed only after great, irrevocable losses. That way, they can appear to be good samaritans by referring big losers to sensitive, compassionate resources such as Gamblers Anonymous and worthless addiction treatment programs that often cost more than the original losses to gambling.</p>
<p>Tragically, GA does not work, and very often results in <a target="_blank" href="http://www.rational.org/html_member_area/reasons_cancel.html#anchor3241624">recovery group disorder</a>, including the “hitting bottom” concept that practically invites continued desperation at the wagering tables, the track, or the slots. That obviously happened in your case, and this tragedy is repeated in the lives of many thousands of men and women who cannot afford the obligatory “relapses” of 12-step recoveryism.</p>
<p>Your comments will definitely inspire other losers to quit gambling, stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, set their confidence for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice. They will be overjoyed to discover, as you did, that all they need for recovery from “gambling addiction” was learned during childhood, and those original family values may now be put to very good use.</p>
<p>Because AVRT® applies very well to gambling, there is an entire chapter on the Gaming Beast in <em>Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. </em>In the <a target="_blank" href="https://rational.org/subscribe/jo01.php ">Rational Recovery Discussion Forums</a>, gambling addiction is the topic in the Other Addictions folder.</p>
<p>Enjoy the freedom and dignity of independent recovery! Enjoy the relief of now being safe from yourself, from the casinos, and from the lowlife of Gamber’s Anonymous.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Jim Heckel</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-5421</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-5421</guid>
					<description>Here's my response to the good Ms. McAllister, above:

Neither the good Mr Trimpey nor Rational Recovery promote &quot;isolation, self-centeredness, and the inability to have the strength to ask for help when needed&quot;, as you put it.  Rather, they promote individual courage, independence, and the ability to take care of oneself without living as a parasite upon others.

Finally, did you know that Trimpey himself has over a quarter century of &quot;clean time&quot;?  If he was still in AA, you'd call him an &quot;old timer&quot; and speak every bit as highly of &quot;my friend Jack T.&quot; with the same fervor used by a North Korean army officer praising Kim Jong IL.  Instead, you'll probably dismiss him as &quot;dry drunk&quot; or &quot;never really addicted&quot; instead.  A pity - you could learn from him.

I could go on, but I do have to go to work soon - see, I have a productive job where I contribute to society, as opposed to begging for a living or wearing my clean time on my sleeve.

Rgds,
Jim H.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my response to the good Ms. McAllister, above:</p>
<p>Neither the good Mr Trimpey nor Rational Recovery promote &#8220;isolation, self-centeredness, and the inability to have the strength to ask for help when needed&#8221;, as you put it.  Rather, they promote individual courage, independence, and the ability to take care of oneself without living as a parasite upon others.</p>
<p>Finally, did you know that Trimpey himself has over a quarter century of &#8220;clean time&#8221;?  If he was still in AA, you&#8217;d call him an &#8220;old timer&#8221; and speak every bit as highly of &#8220;my friend Jack T.&#8221; with the same fervor used by a North Korean army officer praising Kim Jong IL.  Instead, you&#8217;ll probably dismiss him as &#8220;dry drunk&#8221; or &#8220;never really addicted&#8221; instead.  A pity - you could learn from him.</p>
<p>I could go on, but I do have to go to work soon - see, I have a productive job where I contribute to society, as opposed to begging for a living or wearing my clean time on my sleeve.</p>
<p>Rgds,<br />
Jim H.
</p>
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		<title>by: Faye MacAlister, 31 Allentown, PA</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4282</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4282</guid>
					<description>This is all based upon the negative views of AA.  Granted, AA is often a subculture which many people define their whole will and lived under, but this is rare.  You have exposed every part of AA which is bad.  The good parts such as the instant acceptance, the self-esteem you achieve from associating with other &quot;rational&quot; AA participants, and the lifelong friendships, are the parts of AA you forgot to mention.  Your program promotes isolation, self-centeredness, and the inability to have the strength to ask for help when needed.  Recovery for the fearful and those too afraid to look within themselves.  How's that for a mingling of beasts?
Faye K. MacAlister, Counselor, two years three months clean, traveling spokesperson, chairperson, lots of true friends, works a free program.
&lt;hr&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Faye,

I don’t know if you’re a “two-hatter” or not. I also do not know what kind of “counselor” you are. If you are attempting to serve two masters, your profession and AA, then you are in an intolerable conflict of interest.

The exception, of course, is if you are a substance abuse counselor certified by some non-profit organization rather than by a university department of one of the traditional, learned professions or offering a terminal, post-graduate degree program. In that case, I will simply dismiss you as part of the 12-step syndicate, doing your own 12th stepping for money. “Traveling spokesperson,” suggests you’re an AA circuit speaker, sharing  tales of recovery with audiences you then offer your business card.

To use the authority of credentials to refer addicted people into the fellowship of addiction, Alcoholics Anonymous, is a &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.rational.org/pdf_files/nasw_complaint.pdf &quot;&gt;violation of the most basic professional ethics.&lt;/a&gt; That creates a dual relationship, suppressing &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.rational.org/pdf_files/InformedConsent.pdf&quot;&gt;informed consent&lt;/a&gt; to addiction treatment services and recovery group participation. It also uses the scientific and clinical discourse of professional disciplines to lend intellectual respectability to otherwise bogus ideas that otherwise would fail the giggle test.

You’re still counting time, Faye, as if you’re measuring the time between drinks! Are you setting new records every day? Can you imagine knowing for a fact that you’ll never drink again? If you had that part down, you wouldn’t be counting the weeks since your last blessed drink.

You can‘t even guarantee your own family you’ll never drink/use again, Faye. You expect your family and the whole world to live under the dark cloud of your own uncertainty about the future use of alcohol and other drugs. Then, if you counsel addicted people, you teach them the same arrogance, so they, too, may reserve the privilege of drinking/using any time they really want to.

I’m afraid your “true friends” will only have you as long as you remain loyal to AA. Bill W’s injunction, “AA unity before all else, for without AA we will perish,” means your recovery comes first, and if you ever try to “go it alone,” you’ll be without your AA friends from that moment on. &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://rational.org/recover.html &quot;&gt;Try it; you’ll see.&lt;/a&gt;

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all based upon the negative views of AA.  Granted, AA is often a subculture which many people define their whole will and lived under, but this is rare.  You have exposed every part of AA which is bad.  The good parts such as the instant acceptance, the self-esteem you achieve from associating with other &#8220;rational&#8221; AA participants, and the lifelong friendships, are the parts of AA you forgot to mention.  Your program promotes isolation, self-centeredness, and the inability to have the strength to ask for help when needed.  Recovery for the fearful and those too afraid to look within themselves.  How&#8217;s that for a mingling of beasts?<br />
Faye K. MacAlister, Counselor, two years three months clean, traveling spokesperson, chairperson, lots of true friends, works a free program.<br />
<hr /></p>
<blockquote><p>Faye,</p>
<p>I don’t know if you’re a “two-hatter” or not. I also do not know what kind of “counselor” you are. If you are attempting to serve two masters, your profession and AA, then you are in an intolerable conflict of interest.</p>
<p>The exception, of course, is if you are a substance abuse counselor certified by some non-profit organization rather than by a university department of one of the traditional, learned professions or offering a terminal, post-graduate degree program. In that case, I will simply dismiss you as part of the 12-step syndicate, doing your own 12th stepping for money. “Traveling spokesperson,” suggests you’re an AA circuit speaker, sharing  tales of recovery with audiences you then offer your business card.</p>
<p>To use the authority of credentials to refer addicted people into the fellowship of addiction, Alcoholics Anonymous, is a <a target="_blank" href="http://www.rational.org/pdf_files/nasw_complaint.pdf ">violation of the most basic professional ethics.</a> That creates a dual relationship, suppressing <a target="_blank" href="http://www.rational.org/pdf_files/InformedConsent.pdf">informed consent</a> to addiction treatment services and recovery group participation. It also uses the scientific and clinical discourse of professional disciplines to lend intellectual respectability to otherwise bogus ideas that otherwise would fail the giggle test.</p>
<p>You’re still counting time, Faye, as if you’re measuring the time between drinks! Are you setting new records every day? Can you imagine knowing for a fact that you’ll never drink again? If you had that part down, you wouldn’t be counting the weeks since your last blessed drink.</p>
<p>You can‘t even guarantee your own family you’ll never drink/use again, Faye. You expect your family and the whole world to live under the dark cloud of your own uncertainty about the future use of alcohol and other drugs. Then, if you counsel addicted people, you teach them the same arrogance, so they, too, may reserve the privilege of drinking/using any time they really want to.</p>
<p>I’m afraid your “true friends” will only have you as long as you remain loyal to AA. Bill W’s injunction, “AA unity before all else, for without AA we will perish,” means your recovery comes first, and if you ever try to “go it alone,” you’ll be without your AA friends from that moment on. <a target="_blank" href="http://rational.org/recover.html ">Try it; you’ll see.</a></p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Tina</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4182</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4182</guid>
					<description>The addictive voice is “any thinking that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or other drugs.” I love this definition.  I am, however, wondering if you support ANY thought that society has for the use of alcohol by NON-addictive people?

I personally have never lived a life of addiction and use to participate on rare occasions by having a drink(only one or two) with friends or at parties. I have since decided from my research on the use of alcohol that I will never drink again due to the damage that even ONE drink does to the body. This research was initiated from having an addicted person in my life....also why I found AVRT.

I would appreciate hearing from you how you would answer peoples argument for the occasional use of alcohol by NON-addictive participants.

I would like to thank you for having the best solution to addiction available with this website.  AVRT is life altering once someone &quot;gets it&quot;.

Thanks for your insight.
Tina

&lt;hr&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Tina,

Drinking is an individual liberty, the pursuit of pleasure with very well known risks. While some drink without ill effects, others continue to drink even after a predictable pattern of destructive or high-risk drinking has been established. Those individuals are &lt;em&gt;problem drinkers, &lt;/em&gt;whose pursuit of addictive pleasure presents a danger to others, especially to their own families. By any sane system of moral thought, any further use of alcohol and other drugs by problem drinkers is immoral conduct.

However, our society has abandoned the moral sanity of its founders and accepted the disease concept of immorality, with the sad result that there is no expectation from society nor from our court system that alcohol and drug related offenders refrain from intoxicating their brains with alcohol and other strong drugs.

The moral injunction of AVRT® applies to &lt;em&gt;problem drinkers and drug addicts, &lt;/em&gt;and is not a call for a return to the external controls of Prohibition. The Big Plan of AVRT-based recovery is a commitment to life time abstinence enforced by inner controls, i.e., individual moral judgment.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The addictive voice is “any thinking that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or other drugs.” I love this definition.  I am, however, wondering if you support ANY thought that society has for the use of alcohol by NON-addictive people?</p>
<p>I personally have never lived a life of addiction and use to participate on rare occasions by having a drink(only one or two) with friends or at parties. I have since decided from my research on the use of alcohol that I will never drink again due to the damage that even ONE drink does to the body. This research was initiated from having an addicted person in my life&#8230;.also why I found AVRT.</p>
<p>I would appreciate hearing from you how you would answer peoples argument for the occasional use of alcohol by NON-addictive participants.</p>
<p>I would like to thank you for having the best solution to addiction available with this website.  AVRT is life altering once someone &#8220;gets it&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insight.<br />
Tina</p>
<hr /><br />
<blockquote><p>Tina,</p>
<p>Drinking is an individual liberty, the pursuit of pleasure with very well known risks. While some drink without ill effects, others continue to drink even after a predictable pattern of destructive or high-risk drinking has been established. Those individuals are <em>problem drinkers, </em>whose pursuit of addictive pleasure presents a danger to others, especially to their own families. By any sane system of moral thought, any further use of alcohol and other drugs by problem drinkers is immoral conduct.</p>
<p>However, our society has abandoned the moral sanity of its founders and accepted the disease concept of immorality, with the sad result that there is no expectation from society nor from our court system that alcohol and drug related offenders refrain from intoxicating their brains with alcohol and other strong drugs.</p>
<p>The moral injunction of AVRT® applies to <em>problem drinkers and drug addicts, </em>and is not a call for a return to the external controls of Prohibition. The Big Plan of AVRT-based recovery is a commitment to life time abstinence enforced by inner controls, i.e., individual moral judgment.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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	<item>
		<title>by: George Smith</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4178</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 04:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4178</guid>
					<description>My addictive voice says that you are a &quot;prick&quot;. My spiritual voice says, &quot;what a breath of truth!!!!&quot; You have completely exposed the beast within. I knew that I could never ever get sober, that I could never stop drinking, ever. I'm in my sixth month of a new life and I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind. I haven't even thought of the beast and his issues for months. I shudder to think what my life would be like had I chosen to put the beast on a diet of &quot;AA&quot; rather than to starve him. Thank-you, Jack and please do whatever you can to get this information out to as many as possible whom are fooled by the &quot; Recovery Movement&quot;. What a travesty of justice it all is!!!! What a falsehood. The farther I get from it, the clearer I can see how impotent is the treatment and how damning is the philosophy. I am not my Beast and I never was, he just fooled me.
George

&lt;hr&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;George,

If 12-steppers knew what they were revealing about themselves when they write me hate mail, they would have no need to continue in AA. They would be recognizing their own inner enemy, which fears and loathes anyone who would &lt;em&gt;pass moral judgment&lt;/em&gt; on the act of self-intoxication by problem drinkers. The Beast hates me, as you make very clear, but people in their right minds have no good reason to try to silence my AA-bashing, attack my character, pass terrible rumors about me, and write me hateful emails. Who could possibly be harmed by or object to being encouraged to accept moral responsiblity for the act of self-intoxication, and for becoming permanently abstinent? What is so awful about being warned to stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, when their complete lack of abstinent outcome is very well known?
Like most who emerge from AVRT-based recovery, your view of the world is radically changed, and you can see the Beast running wild in society, infiltrating the health professions, and destroying our social service system with the sweet venom of 12-step recoveryism.

Bravo to you for finally taking control! Your good feelings are a natural reward for accepting full responsibility for your personal conduct. Be sure to let others know about AVRT® so they can avoid the difficulties and misguidance you had to overcome.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My addictive voice says that you are a &#8220;prick&#8221;. My spiritual voice says, &#8220;what a breath of truth!!!!&#8221; You have completely exposed the beast within. I knew that I could never ever get sober, that I could never stop drinking, ever. I&#8217;m in my sixth month of a new life and I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind. I haven&#8217;t even thought of the beast and his issues for months. I shudder to think what my life would be like had I chosen to put the beast on a diet of &#8220;AA&#8221; rather than to starve him. Thank-you, Jack and please do whatever you can to get this information out to as many as possible whom are fooled by the &#8221; Recovery Movement&#8221;. What a travesty of justice it all is!!!! What a falsehood. The farther I get from it, the clearer I can see how impotent is the treatment and how damning is the philosophy. I am not my Beast and I never was, he just fooled me.<br />
George</p>
<hr /><br />
<blockquote><p>George,</p>
<p>If 12-steppers knew what they were revealing about themselves when they write me hate mail, they would have no need to continue in AA. They would be recognizing their own inner enemy, which fears and loathes anyone who would <em>pass moral judgment</em> on the act of self-intoxication by problem drinkers. The Beast hates me, as you make very clear, but people in their right minds have no good reason to try to silence my AA-bashing, attack my character, pass terrible rumors about me, and write me hateful emails. Who could possibly be harmed by or object to being encouraged to accept moral responsiblity for the act of self-intoxication, and for becoming permanently abstinent? What is so awful about being warned to stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, when their complete lack of abstinent outcome is very well known?<br />
Like most who emerge from AVRT-based recovery, your view of the world is radically changed, and you can see the Beast running wild in society, infiltrating the health professions, and destroying our social service system with the sweet venom of 12-step recoveryism.</p>
<p>Bravo to you for finally taking control! Your good feelings are a natural reward for accepting full responsibility for your personal conduct. Be sure to let others know about AVRT® so they can avoid the difficulties and misguidance you had to overcome.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Jim Heckel</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4169</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/36/#comment-4169</guid>
					<description>As someone born in the 1970s, I missed out on the whole hippie thing.  So please forgive me if my question sounds stupid.

I noticed you mentioned a &quot;hippie&quot; woman who announced her plan to use &quot;herbal preperations&quot; in her religious rituals.  Tell me, how did you know that was a reference to illegal drugs?  It sounds like it could just as easily refer to Tazo herbal tea, Starbucks spiced chai, or patchouli scented incense.

&lt;hr&gt;

Jim,

You are forgiven.

Jack Trimpey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone born in the 1970s, I missed out on the whole hippie thing.  So please forgive me if my question sounds stupid.</p>
<p>I noticed you mentioned a &#8220;hippie&#8221; woman who announced her plan to use &#8220;herbal preperations&#8221; in her religious rituals.  Tell me, how did you know that was a reference to illegal drugs?  It sounds like it could just as easily refer to Tazo herbal tea, Starbucks spiced chai, or patchouli scented incense.</p>
<hr />
<p>Jim,</p>
<p>You are forgiven.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey
</p>
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