Comments on: The Ancestry of Substance Abuse Counseling http://www.rational.org/blog/38/ Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, AA, 12-step Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:50:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Gary B. http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-19498 Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:46:53 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-19498 Dear Jack Regarding your "Vitriolic A.A. bashing" ...More power to you! As I see it, what you are doing is nothing less than the vital work of deprogramming victims of a dangerous, brain-washing cult. I note with sadness some of the previous objections to your comments from current A.A. infectees. "Poor, suggestible, deluded buggers" I say. They evidently beleve that their quasi-religious indoctrination is a good thing to infect others with. My response to this is: Really? Tell that to the former A.A member (a vulnerable bipolar sufferer) that I know who was so successfully indoctrinated with all this Big Book occultism that he was detained in an acute mental health treatment ward because of a bout of feverous, A.A induced religious mania! Wait a minute... I have another one for you... how about the (former) very good friend of mine whose loving wife took her kids and dumped him because (due to the consequences of the proselytism that A.A inevitably coerces) she and her kids could understandably no longer tolerate the strain of having to listen to his morbid, (frankly David Koresh/Jim Jones reminiscent) evangelical A.A. monologues on a daily basis? Folks, speaking for myself, all I know is this: I will NEVER EVER have anything more to do with recovery groups. I'm now sensible enough to know that they could only do me harm. And besides, I'M NEVER GOING TO DRINK AGAIN AND I'M NEVER GOING TO CHANGE MY MIND - so why the hell do I need a bunch of Moonies trying to undermine that committment by telling me that if I stick with them I have the dubious pleasure of remaining sober "one day at a time?" All I can say is, Jack, thank you for heping me to recognize my Beast and allowing me to start acting like a man and not an animal. I'm sure I would have done this sooner if not for the near-fatal mistake of entering the Cult of Akron. Peace, Gary <blockquote><em>Gary,</em> <em>Bravo to you for finally taking control! Enjoy your good feelings because they are your natural reward. I’m glad you mention the anti-family aspects of 12-step recoveryism, because very few people understand that Al-Anon is a coordinated effort to make families accommodate addiction. </em> <em>Be sure to let others know about AVRT® so they can avoid the difficulties you had to face. </em> <em>Cheers, Jack Trimpey   </em></blockquote> Dear Jack

Regarding your “Vitriolic A.A. bashing”

…More power to you!

As I see it, what you are doing is nothing less than the vital work of deprogramming victims of a dangerous, brain-washing cult.

I note with sadness some of the previous objections to your comments from current A.A. infectees. “Poor, suggestible, deluded buggers” I say.

They evidently beleve that their quasi-religious indoctrination is a good thing to infect others with.

My response to this is: Really? Tell that to the former A.A member (a vulnerable bipolar sufferer) that I know who was so successfully indoctrinated with all this Big Book occultism that he was detained in an acute mental health treatment ward because of a bout of feverous, A.A induced religious mania!

Wait a minute… I have another one for you… how about the (former) very good friend of mine whose loving wife took her kids and dumped him because (due to the consequences of the proselytism that A.A inevitably coerces) she and her kids could understandably no longer tolerate the strain of having to listen to his morbid, (frankly David Koresh/Jim Jones reminiscent) evangelical A.A. monologues on a daily basis?

Folks, speaking for myself, all I know is this:

I will NEVER EVER have anything more to do with recovery groups. I’m now sensible enough to know that they could only do me harm.

And besides, I’M NEVER GOING TO DRINK AGAIN AND I’M NEVER GOING TO CHANGE MY MIND - so why the hell do I need a bunch of Moonies trying to undermine that committment by telling me that if I stick with them I have the dubious pleasure of remaining sober “one day at a time?”

All I can say is, Jack, thank you for heping me to recognize my Beast and allowing me to start acting like a man and not an animal. I’m sure I would have done this sooner if not for the near-fatal mistake of entering the Cult of Akron.

Peace,
Gary

Gary,

Bravo to you for finally taking control! Enjoy your good feelings because they are your natural reward. I’m glad you mention the anti-family aspects of 12-step recoveryism, because very few people understand that Al-Anon is a coordinated effort to make families accommodate addiction.

Be sure to let others know about AVRT® so they can avoid the difficulties you had to face.

Cheers,

Jack Trimpey   

]]> by: Micky http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-12693 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:20:12 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-12693 BILL WILSON - FALSE PROPHET It is important to note that Bill Wilson's faith system was not based on Jesus Christ and Him crucified; nor is there any mention of Jesus Christ being the Savior from his sin. Both he and Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) embraced and promoted a variety of spiritual experiences, which included practicing spiritualism and conversing with the dead (which the Bible forbids) and being heavily involved in séances. Wilson also acted as a medium or channeler. It was while involved in these types of religious experiences, not Biblical Christianity, that Wilson developed his Twelve Steps (Pass It On, pp 156, 198, 275, 278). PEACE BE WITH YOU MICKY <hr /> <blockquote>Mickey, Your post should be of interest to all Christians, especially Christian clergy who have failed to recognize AA as the face of evil. Sadly, the American religious community has sold out to the heresy of AA/NA/Alanon, offering official endorsements and material support to the voracious, soul-reaping 12-step program. Few people recognize Bill Wilson as a failed Christian whose involvement with occultism and drugs resulted in his infamous compromise between addiction and piety — the 12-step program. Fully in the grip of addiction as he wrote the 12-step program, he could not comprehend that, for problem drinkers, the act of self-intoxication is immoral conduct. You don’t have to believe in Jesus to understand that abstinence on a moral plane is the easy, softer way He spoke of. “Go and sin no more,” doesn’t mean one-day-at-a-time. It means, “I will never drink again!” Jack Trimpey</blockquote> BILL WILSON - FALSE PROPHET
It is important to note that Bill Wilson’s faith system was not based on Jesus Christ and Him crucified; nor is there any mention of Jesus Christ being the Savior from his sin. Both he and Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) embraced and promoted a variety of spiritual experiences, which included practicing spiritualism and conversing with the dead (which the Bible forbids) and being heavily involved in séances. Wilson also acted as a medium or channeler. It was while involved in these types of religious experiences, not Biblical Christianity, that Wilson developed his Twelve Steps (Pass It On, pp 156, 198, 275, 278).
PEACE BE WITH YOU
MICKY


Mickey,

Your post should be of interest to all Christians, especially Christian clergy who have failed to recognize AA as the face of evil. Sadly, the American religious community has sold out to the heresy of AA/NA/Alanon, offering official endorsements and material support to the voracious, soul-reaping 12-step program.

Few people recognize Bill Wilson as a failed Christian whose involvement with occultism and drugs resulted in his infamous compromise between addiction and piety — the 12-step program. Fully in the grip of addiction as he wrote the 12-step program, he could not comprehend that, for problem drinkers, the act of self-intoxication is immoral conduct.

You don’t have to believe in Jesus to understand that abstinence on a moral plane is the easy, softer way He spoke of. “Go and sin no more,” doesn’t mean one-day-at-a-time. It means, “I will never drink again!”
Jack Trimpey

]]> by: RE http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-12264 Sun, 15 Jul 2007 03:28:04 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-12264 RR, I have been around AA for 15 years,having been sent by the courts twice to sign papers.I just got worse. Many times I went to my meetings not feeling like drinking, but after an hour of listening to "war stories" of partying, I really wanted to drink and would then go get drunk. Also, I never knew what a resentment was until I heard one explained in a meeting and I started thinking about ones I should have against certain family members. From that point on this resentment manifested itself and grew like a cancer and I was totally unable to shake it. AA's sayings like "singleness of purpose", "unity","principles before personalities", "our common welfare comes first" and the 12 traditions are very cult like.I have heard advice to dump one's spouse if they were a bad influence or objected to the program.Thanks RR,your the solution! RR,
I have been around AA for 15 years,having been sent by the courts
twice to sign papers.I just got worse. Many times I went to my meetings
not feeling like drinking, but after an hour of listening to “war stories” of
partying, I really wanted to drink and would then go get drunk.
Also, I never knew what a resentment was until I heard one explained in a meeting and I started thinking about ones I should have
against certain family members. From that point on this resentment
manifested itself and grew like a cancer and I was totally unable to shake
it. AA’s sayings like “singleness of purpose”, “unity”,”principles before
personalities”, “our common welfare comes first” and the 12 traditions are very cult like.I have heard advice to dump one’s spouse if they were a bad influence or objected to the program.Thanks RR,your the solution!

]]> by: Nothing else worked http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-11753 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:40:42 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-11753 I have tried "Self-Recovery" on all levels....Trust me!!!! It never worked. AA is not a cult it is not for everyone and is not always the best place to recover but it is not a cult. Unfortunately, the true nature of AA has been scrambled by too many other addictions and opinions. Even the founders saw that coming. There are a lot of people who are forced to go to AA which leaves a lot of room for error. It was designed for those who were so far gone there was no other way out or for people who wanted it. Your program is no farther away from being a cult than from anyone elses and I am sure your program will work for lots of people just like AA has but to vindicate AA or other recovery groups for self promotion seems a shame. AA saved my life and it will save thousands of others who are able to sift through the BS. <blockquote>Nothing, Rational Recovery® has no members, no groups, and tells everyone to say home with their families in the evening. Some cult. Jack Trimpey</blockquote> I have tried “Self-Recovery” on all levels….Trust me!!!! It never worked. AA is not a cult it is not for everyone and is not always the best place to recover but it is not a cult. Unfortunately, the true nature of AA has been scrambled by too many other addictions and opinions. Even the founders saw that coming. There are a lot of people who are forced to go to AA which leaves a lot of room for error. It was designed for those who were so far gone there was no other way out or for people who wanted it.

Your program is no farther away from being a cult than from anyone elses and I am sure your program will work for lots of people just like AA has but to vindicate AA or other recovery groups for self promotion seems a shame. AA saved my life and it will save thousands of others who are able to sift through the BS.

Nothing,

Rational Recovery® has no members, no groups, and tells everyone to say home with their families in the evening. Some cult.

Jack Trimpey

]]> by: Jodi M http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-11750 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:22:50 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-11750 I don't really understand why someone who works with addicts and alcoholics would bash a program that is successful for thousands of people. I do not know if your program works or not but I do know that AA is working for me. I have NEVER been told that I had to do anything working my 12 step program but given suggestions on how other people have handle similar situtations. The 12 step program is a Spiritual program (there is a 12 step bible) and works if you work it. This web site is not about recovery if it was you would not put down a program that was developed by more than 100 people (yes Bill and Bob are the main ones but if you read the book it says that 100 people helped it perfecting it) and I know many people who have been in recovery for 20 to 30 years by working the program you are calling a cult!!! I firmly believe that a person who wanted to help could help people without putting down other means of recovery!! I am very sadded by your approach at SELLING your recovery ideas!!! As my program teaches me I will pray for you and anyone who would walk away from a GOD given program and follow you. It is important that we recovering 12 steppers stick together we all share a common bond and need to be reminded when our mind turns on us who we are. I am just wondering how many of your followers are still in recovery today, you success rate, how much $$$$$ you have earned, what your program will be doing in 50 years and of course how many people DIE from following you!!!!May GOD be with you and your followers and I WILL pray that each of you live find your own PROMISES I don’t really understand why someone who works with addicts and alcoholics would bash a program that is successful for thousands of people. I do not know if your program works or not but I do know that AA is working for me. I have NEVER been told that I had to do anything working my 12 step program but given suggestions on how other people have handle similar situtations. The 12 step program is a Spiritual program (there is a 12 step bible) and works if you work it. This web site is not about recovery if it was you would not put down a program that was developed by more than 100 people (yes Bill and Bob are the main ones but if you read the book it says that 100 people helped it perfecting it) and I know many people who have been in recovery for 20 to 30 years by working the program you are calling a cult!!! I firmly believe that a person who wanted to help could help people without putting down other means of recovery!! I am very sadded by your approach at SELLING your recovery ideas!!! As my program teaches me I will pray for you and anyone who would walk away from a GOD given program and follow you. It is important that we recovering 12 steppers stick together we all share a common bond and need to be reminded when our mind turns on us who we are. I am just wondering how many of your followers are still in recovery today, you success rate, how much $$$$$ you have earned, what your program will be doing in 50 years and of course how many people DIE from following you!!!!May GOD be with you and your followers and I WILL pray that each of you live find your own PROMISES

]]> by: Brian Asbury http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-10224 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 01:46:51 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-10224 Hi Jack: Thanks for all you do in exposing the 12 step heresy for what it is. I remember in my AA days, there was this one poor chap in the meeting who was miserable, who was telling who I think was his sponsor that he just didn't see how this 12 step thing could help him. What could his sponsor offer him besides let go let God and a bunch of other vacuous bullshit? Poor fellow! If only he'd known about RR, if only I'd known about RR back then. AA causes a lot of needless grief and sorrow for people who still haven't been brainwashed by their malignant cult. Keep going after them, Jack! Hi Jack:
Thanks for all you do in exposing the 12 step heresy for what it is.
I remember in my AA days, there was this one poor chap in the meeting who was miserable, who was telling who I think was his sponsor that he just didn’t see how this 12 step thing could help him. What could his sponsor offer him besides let go let God and a bunch of other vacuous bullshit? Poor fellow! If only he’d known about RR, if only I’d known about RR back then. AA causes a lot of needless grief and sorrow for people who still haven’t been brainwashed by their malignant cult. Keep going after them, Jack!

]]> by: LUC Bourassa http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-9839 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:19:42 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-9839 I have been to Brentwood in 1989 3 ms IT was all about inventory,honesty,submissions,the grosser the story the more respect you received.I went to 3 other rehabs and no straight answers.THank-you Mr Trimpey for outing them for what it is. Luc Bourassa Toronto,ontario,canada. I have been to Brentwood in 1989 3 ms IT was all about inventory,honesty,submissions,the grosser the story the more respect you received.I went to 3 other rehabs and no straight answers.THank-you Mr Trimpey for outing them for what it is.
Luc Bourassa
Toronto,ontario,canada.

]]> by: Sherrie http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-9514 Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:34:58 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-9514 Hi Jack, I started drugging in 1967 and drinking in 1996. Never a day went by that I didn't do some kind of substance, . 40 yrs! Last Tuesday, still in AA, still relapsing, I was looking for medication for alcoholism on line so I could get it from my Dr. I ran across the site of RR. Today is Sunday. Not only will I never drink again, I will never ever go to a 12 step program or seek professional help for an addiction! And I mean it! It’s been 6 days! I made my Big Plan right in front of my husband(what a wonderful man) out loud. I have ordered my book and will continue on this site for my 3 mos. But it is over. I am all fixed, I am happy and healthy. It was easy and simple , unlike that stupid AA. (I always knew there was something squirrely going on). What did MLuther King say? Free at last — thank ME! I'm free at last! Love ya Jack. Sherrie <blockquote>Sherrie, Bravo to you for finally taking control! Your good feelings are a natural reward for accepting full responsibility for your personal conduct. Sadly, there are many who want you to fail, so that you will not overshadow their meager accomplishments of one-day-at-a-time sobriety. They will attack your self-confidence, your chacter, your integrity, and predict very bad things for you — jails, hospitals, institutions, dry-drunkism, etc. You are wise to stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, because they are a rough kind. Soon, I think you will prefer new relationships in more polite circles. Be sure to let others know about AVRT® so they can avoid the difficulties you had to face. Cheers, Jack Trimpey</blockquote> Hi Jack,

I started drugging in 1967 and drinking in 1996. Never a day went by that I didn’t do some kind of substance, . 40 yrs! Last Tuesday, still in AA, still relapsing, I was looking for medication for alcoholism on line so I could get it from my Dr. I ran across the site of RR. Today is Sunday. Not only will I never drink again, I will never ever go to a 12 step program or seek professional help for an addiction! And I mean it! It’s been 6 days! I made my Big Plan right in front of my husband(what a wonderful man) out loud. I have ordered my book and will continue on this site for my 3 mos. But it is over. I am all fixed, I am happy and healthy. It was easy and simple , unlike that stupid AA. (I always knew there was something squirrely going on). What did MLuther King say? Free at last — thank ME! I’m free at last!

Love ya Jack. Sherrie

Sherrie,

Bravo to you for finally taking control! Your good feelings are a natural reward for accepting full responsibility for your personal conduct.

Sadly, there are many who want you to fail, so that you will not overshadow their meager accomplishments of one-day-at-a-time sobriety. They will attack your self-confidence, your chacter, your integrity, and predict very bad things for you — jails, hospitals, institutions, dry-drunkism, etc. You are wise to stay away from recovery groups of all kinds, because they are a rough kind. Soon, I think you will prefer new relationships in more polite circles.
Be sure to let others know about AVRT® so they can avoid the difficulties you had to face.

Cheers,

Jack Trimpey

]]> by: Christopher W. http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-8563 Sun, 03 Jun 2007 13:07:43 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-8563 I am Chris W. of the G.O.G in Athens, Ga. I am a recovering addict and a house parent at a recovery residence. If you really think that the steps and the fellowship is about perpetuating addiction then you were probably never addicted to begin with. I invite you to join us at the 6:30 meeting at the biscayne and we could show you how you may be harming other people who are addicts. However, on a side note, if you don't take the calls at 3am, or go to the funerals, or work with the families of true addicts, if you have never worked the steps and totally released your will to god, then you have no right to lessen the work that he has done in my life. You should try giving all the info on AA and NA instead of just your distorted and selfish views that ultimately fatten your pocketbook. While you may help some problem drinkers or weekend warrior recreational users, your message would be a death sentance to me and anyone else that is an ADDICT. How much is your little seminar? We don't have any dues or fees. 4 days and you're cured? I used from 8 yrs old to 24 . 16 yrs of drug abuse and you think your seminar will cure me in 4 days? Where does God figure into your moneymaking scheme? Or, do you just prey on people too beaten down by life and willing to do anything to put a quick bandaid on their pain. I hope you enjoy your money and your ego. I'll enjoy my sleep and a sense of serenity only available from a clean conscience and a knowledge/practice of god in my life. With love and tolerance, Christopher W. 12-25-05 <hr /> <blockquote>Readers, Behold the sacred addict! He is the loving oracle of AA, spreading the tolerant gospel of Bill W as he understands it. He wants me to quiet down, to suppress information on independent recovery as he does. Although he has a low opinion of me, I believe in CW's capacity for independent recovery. I think that by age eight he knew right from wrong, and knew in his heart that his substance abuse was wrong. I think his desire for addictive pleasures overtook his better judgment, resulting in a pattern of delinquency and adult failure. I also believe he figured out he'd eventually have to quit getting high altogether. Alas, he wandered into AA, or was forced into it. He was beaten down by life and willing to do anything to put a quick bandaid on his pain, and he found that one-day-at-a-time sobriety, in a group of other lowlife, was far less painful than the rigors of planned, permanent abstinence. CW sold out on himself, got a new last name, Imanalcoholic, got weirder by the day in AA, and become a freak of nature, powerless to resist his bodily desire for the pleasure produced by alcohol and other hedonic drugs. Once bitten, he now bites others forced into the 12-step web, injecting them with the same, sweet venom that zapped him into chronic, one-day-at-a-time recoveryism not too long ago. I'm a little worried about the "funerals" CW mentions. His opposition to the profit motive might be annoying to the undertaker. Does AA bury its own? Jack Trimpey</blockquote> I am Chris W. of the G.O.G in Athens, Ga. I am a recovering addict and a house parent at a recovery residence. If you really think that the steps and the fellowship is about perpetuating addiction then you were probably never addicted to begin with. I invite you to join us at the 6:30 meeting at the biscayne and we could show you how you may be harming other people who are addicts. However, on a side note, if you don’t take the calls at 3am, or go to the funerals, or work with the families of true addicts, if you have never worked the steps and totally released your will to god, then you have no right to lessen the work that he has done in my life. You should try giving all the info on AA and NA instead of just your distorted and selfish views that ultimately fatten your pocketbook. While you may help some problem drinkers or weekend warrior recreational users, your message would be a death sentance to me and anyone else that is an ADDICT. How much is your little seminar? We don’t have any dues or fees. 4 days and you’re cured? I used from 8 yrs old to 24 . 16 yrs of drug abuse and you think your seminar will cure me in 4 days? Where does God figure into your moneymaking scheme? Or, do you just prey on people too beaten down by life and willing to do anything to put a quick bandaid on their pain. I hope you enjoy your money and your ego. I’ll enjoy my sleep and a sense of serenity only available from a clean conscience and a knowledge/practice of god in my life.

With love and tolerance,
Christopher W. 12-25-05


Readers,

Behold the sacred addict! He is the loving oracle of AA, spreading the tolerant gospel of Bill W as he understands it. He wants me to quiet down, to suppress information on independent recovery as he does.

Although he has a low opinion of me, I believe in CW’s capacity for independent recovery. I think that by age eight he knew right from wrong, and knew in his heart that his substance abuse was wrong. I think his desire for addictive pleasures overtook his better judgment, resulting in a pattern of delinquency and adult failure. I also believe he figured out he’d eventually have to quit getting high altogether.

Alas, he wandered into AA, or was forced into it. He was beaten down by life and willing to do anything to put a quick bandaid on his pain, and he found that one-day-at-a-time sobriety, in a group of other lowlife, was far less painful than the rigors of planned, permanent abstinence. CW sold out on himself, got a new last name, Imanalcoholic, got weirder by the day in AA, and become a freak of nature, powerless to resist his bodily desire for the pleasure produced by alcohol and other hedonic drugs.

Once bitten, he now bites others forced into the 12-step web, injecting them with the same, sweet venom that zapped him into chronic, one-day-at-a-time recoveryism not too long ago.

I’m a little worried about the “funerals” CW mentions. His opposition to the profit motive might be annoying to the undertaker. Does AA bury its own?

Jack Trimpey

]]> by: Jim Heckel http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-8144 Fri, 25 May 2007 15:08:27 +0000 http://www.rational.org/blog/38/#comment-8144 I'm looking forward to the much needed "dirty work" - hopefully you won't keep me hanging TOO long. ;) I’m looking forward to the much needed “dirty work” - hopefully you won’t keep me hanging TOO long. ;)

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