Pimps Anonymous
©2007, Jack Trimpey. All rights reserved.
Over the last several months, I received a steady stream of emails about the Midtown Group, an Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) group in Washington D.C., that reportedly fosters the sexual exploitation of young women by sponsors.
Appealing to those with an appetite for lurid stories, the Washington Post reports: In the Midtown Group, female sponsors are actually pimps who refer their tender, young sponsees into the clutches of older sexual predators. According to today’s story in the Washington Post, one such sponsor describes how she referred her young, female sponsees to male sponsors, encouraging the underage girls to have sex with them because that would help them remain sober, one-lay-at-a-time. In other words, the girls became sacrifices to please the Beast Almighty.
The Midtown Group has become a sensational media story, not because it signals a fundamental problem with the practice of corralling tentatively “sober” substance abusers into tight, inbred, long-term relationships, but purely because of the exciting tales of victimhood emanating from that particular group. Because the public doesn’t really care about what goes on in recovery group meeings, only the sex stories have brought the Midtown Group to media attention. The American addiction tragedy — the recovery group movement itself — has gone undetected, unmentioned, un-reported.
The counseling professions, aided by mainstream media pumped up with Hollywood mythology, is running a bulldozer of interference protecting the broader 12-step fellowship of addiction from serious scrutiny. They employ a special manner of speaking, steptalk, a language of spin, that reflects the perceptions, beliefs and values surrounding the recovery group movement. Steptalk plucks our heartstrings as it deceives us.
Steptalk Defense
Here are the main elements of steptalk currently being used to defend the recovery group movement in the light of the Midtown Group sex scandal:
1. The Midtown Group sex scandal is an aberration, a dysfunctional recovery group that arose from malignant social cultism surrounding one charismatic sponsor, Mike Q, who, during his 60’s, achieved rock-star, stud status among the local AA groupies. AA is not a cult, but the Midtown Group became like a cult. Already, some are saying that the Midtown Group isn’t even an AA group. According to that twisted logic, the Midtown Group has strayed so far from AA’s wholesome standards that they have withdrawn by default from AA. That is so-o-o-o like an addict’s con job!
I have answered the telephone at Rational Recovery Headquarters for twenty years, and I assure the reader that the Midtown Group is no aberration. I have known of many Mike Q’s, and heard from numerous families fractured by 13th step, sexual infidelity. Sexual exploitation is rife in the recovery group movement, which is exactly what we should expect when addicted people are forced by lack of choice into confined, long-term, primary relationships with other irresolute substance abusers, practicing a lifestyle so devoid of intrinsic reward that the promises of eventual benefit must be posted on the walls.
Of course, recovery groupers everywhere are going to screw like a cage full of bunnies! They do this everywhere that substance abusers coagulate into abject fellowships consisting of fast-living, I-want-it-now, substance abusers and lonely, depressed people estranged by addiction from their families. Sexual error is a cardinal sign of addiction, reflecting the impairment of moral judgment caused by alcohol, and part of the comprehensive breakdown of moral functioning caused by addiction.
2. In the Post article, the topic of AA scandal is strategically balanced by this out-of-the-blue, gratuitous praise:
“Over eight decades, Alcoholics Anonymous, a pioneer in the support-group model of treatment, has grown to attract about 2 million members in more than 100,000 groups. Despite a stellar reputation and worldwide brand, it has never been more than a set of bedrock traditions. It has no firm hierarchy, no official regulations, and exercises no oversight of individual groups.”
Which is to say, AA will not respond to complaints by families affected by the Midtown Groups treachery. Instead, they must grapple with local courts, local agencies, local politics, all of which are tended to by the local 12-step activists and functionaries, i.e., the 12-step syndicate. In other words, Alcoholics Anonymous is neither accountable, nor liable, for the conduct nor for the effects of the Midtown Group, nor of any other of its cell-groups found in every local community. Now, let me ask you, isn’t AA Central just like every alcoholic or addict you’ve ever known? “It’s not my fault. I’m not responsible. Don’t look at me. I have nothing to say about it. I’m above criticism. It’s really someone else’s fault.”
The character of AA itself follows the beliefs, practices, and values common to addicted people. Any two substance abusers can start a group, attract new members from our social service system, gain favor with the media using the holy name of Alcoholics Anonymous, and claim to be the final authorities on the subjects of addiction and recovery. They are secretive, above criticism, above accountability, above controversy, above liability, have no opinions on anything except a very narrow range of practical matters. Members may not speak for AA, even if they are substance abuse counselors with advanced degrees in the learned professions. As private citizens, however, AA members may promote AA, glorify AA, and defend AA as long as they don’t “break anonymity,” meaning they cannot admit they are members of AA. It is a secret, shadow organization using anonymity as a shield, as if anonymous means confidential. Members do not realize that anonymity is worthless to members, but vitally important to the organization.
3. The 12-step syndicate, the addiction treatment industry in particular, is condemning the Midtown Group, as if the offenses aren’t widespread. Every effort is being made by the 12-step syndicate to advance the official story that the pimp stories are rare abuses and unproved allegations, certainly far outweighed by the wonderful AA program that has helped millions of people, more people than any other program. These official criticisms aim to convey that Midtown Group is a rogue fellowship that should be expunged, to maintain the long tradition of wholesome, selfless altruism aimed at restoring victims of addictive disease to sanity and positive living. The 12-step syndicate hopes their condemnation of the Midtown Group will resemble cutting out a local infection from a larger, otherwise healthy organism.
Here some specific practices that are being presented as aberrations that rarely occur elsewhere:
A. Isolating newcomers from mainstream society. This is universal in the recovery group movement. Addiction treatment centers restrict reading material, cut off all family visitation, permit telephone calls, etc., as part of isolating inductees from the outside world. Total immersion is best exemplified by the universal “90-in-90” standard, whereby newcomers are expected to attend a meeting every day for three consecutive months.
B. The pattern of sexual exploitation commonly known as “13th-stepping.” This is commonplace, part of the recovery group subculture, as shown by having its own universal step-jargon word.
C. Predicting suffering and death for dissenters or dropouts. This is the infamous “Curse of AA” about which I’ve been writing about for decades.
D. Pressuring members to discontinue psychiatric medications, as if they are street drugs. Again, this is a practically unversal attitude and practice in the 12-step movement, unabated since I first complained of it while I worked for Community Mental Health in California 25 years ago.
E. Micro-management of newcomers personal affairs and lives, total intrusion of the “new family” into the minds and families of members. Our Insanity of AA page details the intense social cultism experienced by people all over the world, for the last several decades. Consequently, recovery group disorder is common in the fellowship, and the cause of much suffering and family disruption.
Fellowship of addiction, not of recovery.
America doesn’t have a drug problem, nor an alcohol problem, nor an addiction problem. She has an AA problem, and has been overtaken by a subculture of addicted people who are devoted to making the world more hospitable to self-intoxication and other vice. Wherever two or more addicted people join together, they may call themselves, Alcoholics Anonymous, and a new fellowship of addiction exists. Together, they have in common a set of perceptions, beliefs, and values that form the foundation of their relationship, beliefs and values that are sharply at odds with the foundations of family life and human civilization. The entire recovery group movement, and its business arm, the addiction treatment industry, is a giant fellowship of addiction carried forward on the deceptive nature and ruthless character of addiction itself. What could be more alarming than that?
We all know the nature and character of addiction. It is ugly, immoral, antisocial, devious, and ruthless in its struggle to survive. That is the underlying character of Alcoholics Anonymous, of its recovery doctrines, of its 100,000 cell-groups, of its school of thousands of non-profit fishes, and of the substance abuse counselors who comprise the medically-oriented addiction treatment industry. Mostly from good families, AA members once fell into the moral abyss of addiction, coalesced with similarly inclined people, and have never climbed out. Lodged by 12-step doctrine between using episodes, they are engaged in original denial, which means these things:
1. they deny the moral dimension of self-intoxication,
2. they deny the moral imperative of immediate, permanent, voluntary abstinence,
3. they craftily shift the moral burden of their own vice:
a. onto their ancestors, whose beliefs and values they have defied,
b. onto their suffering families, which they have injured and betrayed,
c. onto codependents and enablers everywhere, who are their primary victims, and
d. onto society and its taxpayers, upon whom they are increasingly dependent.4. they reserve the option to intoxicate themselves (have a relapse) whenever they really feel like it
5. they refuse to apologize for their past self-intoxication by using the pretense of disease,
6. they expect their families, society, the courts, their patients, and God to accept tentative abstinence, i.e., “one-day-at-a-time sobriety,” as if such moral laziness should be admired.
Recovery groups, whether spiritual or psychological, are social manifestations of addiction itself. They impose the inverted beliefs and values of addiction upon newcomers in the form of quasi-religious doctrines. The lifestyle advanced by recovery groups is an emulation of normalcy, an imitation of human life seen through the eyes of animals, and as human life is experienced in the simplified emotional field of addicted people.
The recovery group is a primary group, an emulated family, even introducing itself to newcomers, “Hi, we’re your new family!” The 12-step program is an emulation of religion, borrowing the dignity and trust accorded religion, while substituting a moral code fit for a snail. What sane moral code would deny the immorality of self-intoxication among problem drinkers? Why should we respect someone who refuses to guarantee lifetime abstinence to the family he betrayed through the ultimate self-indulgence, substance addiction? Why would groupers inventory their drunken behavior but exclude the act of self-intoxication from moral inventories? What sort of adult must try to “be good” every day of his life by doing moral inventories and rituals of recovery, unless he has no core of moral integrity?
When irresolute substance abusers get together for any reason, especially after dark, we can be certain they’re up to no good. They operate on the direct, biological voltage of addiction, using forms of language compatible with the addictive mandate, i.e., the Addictive Voice. Meetings start with the self-contradicting proclamation, “AA is a totally self-supporting non-profit organization…,” and the ensuing program is delivered in clever slogans and mottoes that squelch good questions and dissent.
Midtown Madness in Your Town
Recovery groupers are desperately unhappy from their own self-indulgences, have a sense of loss of personal control, lonely, depressed, and yearning for any sign of warmth, affection, or closeness. They are vulnerable to misguidance by any warm hand outstretched to help. They are also sociopaths, all of them, who naturally live double lives, loyal first to the addictive mandate, and then emulating their family roles as necessary.
Recovery groups are hot, singles-scene gatherings with undercurrents of sexuality between people whose chief common trait is impulsive, instant gratification of bodily desires. What could be more predictable than sexual involvements among a group of substance abusers in a state of comprehensive moral collapse, currently estranged from their families, alienated from mainstream society, professing powerlessness over bodily desire, spending more time with each other than with their families, in unsupervised evening meetings during evening hours when they are struggling most to deny themselves addictive pleasures?
Just at the moment of marital crisis, when the addict is forced to choose between his family and addiction, a moment when the heat of marital conflict has stoked the fires of addictive rage, the recovery group steps in as an outside ally offering the addict the cover of disease, and the deceptive appearance of constructive action. They are a new primary group, a permanent, new family, offering the emotional support, the unconditional acceptance, the affection, companionship, and, yes, the sexual contact wisely and appropriately denied by the members’ spouses and extended families.
The recovery group has contempt for original family values, which are incompatible with the rules and beliefs required of addiction. The disease concept of addiction indicts the immediate family as codependents and enablers, responsible for the addict’s plight, and condemns the ancestral tree as a rotten gene pool from which the seeds of their collective misery have fallen. Recovery groupers are not family people at all, and will not accommodate their families’ reasonable demand that they abandon their addictions. They are groupers first and foremost, and expect that their families will accommodate their addictions accept the indignity of living under the uncertainty of one-day-at-a-time sobriety. Many carry amulets proudly stating their misplaced loyalty, “My Recovery Comes First!”
If AA were just another silly sect or social cult, there would be little need to expound on its deficiencies here or anywhere else. However, America has tragically rejected the traditions and religions of her founders and ancestors, and chosen Alcoholics Anonymous as the foundation of moral authority throughout her health and social service systems, so that today we are a 12-step nation, streaming Hollywood recovery mythology into every home, school, church, and agency.
The fact is that AA Central, the General Services and World Service Organizations in New York City, is the administrative center of a vast political movement with cell-groups in every tiny locality, with members embedded throughout our health and social service systems, and with political activists in Congress, state legislatures, local government, and in appointed positions of great social responsibility and authority. Millions of men and women are forced into Alcoholics Anonymous by mandate, by intimidation, by force of law, and by lack of choice. The 12-step program does not work, but only instills the beliefs and values of chronic addiction into the minds of people who need only to discontinue the use of alcohol and other drugs.
Historical Footnote
There is no need for a competing version of AA, one that would consist of an alternative philosophy, alternative methods, catering to those who would refuse AA on religious or personal grounds. We now know that there is no need for AA in the first place, because recovery groups produce far less abstinence than no recovery programming at all. In other words, original family values, fortified by law-enforcement and enlightened public policies, will always be the most cost-effective, dignified, and Constitutional approach to mass, runaway addiction to alcohol and other drugs.
Long ago, Rational Recovery® fell into the trap of emulating AA’s inappropriate solution to addiction — group recoveryism based on the psychological disease concept of addiction. Rational Recovery® sponsored a great network of recovery groups, the Rational Recovery Self-Help Network (RRSN), with groups in 1000 cities. As AVRT® matured into the addiction-killing device it is today, the Rational Recovery Self-Help Network split into two irreconcilable factions, the backers of AVRT-based recovery and the hundreds of professional Advisors — substance abuse counselors who were part of the addiction treatment industry.
Although this schism appeared to be a setback, the outcome has been the emergence of independent recovery as the crown jewel of addiction recovery. Due to its cost-effectiveness and congruity with science, morality, ethics, the law, and the old-fashioned common sense contained in universal family values, AVRT® is the very best avenue for individuals, for families, and as social policy in every community.
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July 27th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
I encourage you to put a link in this particular editorial, to: Orange Papers. Granted, the “Midtown AA Group” is probably closer to ACTUAL AA, then anoyne realizes, but I think pointing people in the direction of additional research would help.John,
July 28th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
As a former sufferer of group recoveryism, I can state with assurance that the incidents in Midtown are not outside of the norm. Once again, you exposed the contradictory claims of AA. How do groupers expect to improve their moral conduct if they put their families on the back burner only associate with others who make the same immoral decisions that they do? Furthermore, they do this without accepting moral responsibility by hiding behind the notion that they are not immoral, only spiritually sick.
I rely on the support of my wife and my friends. What makes them such a blessing is that none of them have ever had problems with alcohol. I choose not to associate with people who have made the same immoral decisions that I have. Rather, I gain strength through those who make moral decisions that I respect and admire. We share a common strength rather than a common problem. Any thoughts, Jack?
Enjoying the fruits of ACE,
Steve Peckman
August 1st, 2007 at 11:06 am
The MidTown Group in DC indicates the pattern and practice of AA. It is an organization in which predation of all sorts is a regular practice. AA is corrupt to the bone; always has been. Illicit sex sells; which is why this story has legs.
The best way to quit drinking/drugging is to quit. Today. That is done every day; and, the recovery game has no idea how it is done. Ignorance is bliss.
I put and to alcohol abuse on my own. No meetings; no support group. I got a grip; and, put things right in my life.
Mastters are well now.
August 2nd, 2007 at 11:36 am
I agree.
MidTown Group is an OTT version of what is commonplace havein AA. I suppose that the exposure may some good effect.
But, AA is corrupt to the bone; it has been, from the start.
August 2nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
I am glad that you decided to comment.
THis behavior is commonplace in AA. It is to be expected.
I hope that it does not remain a dirty little secret.
August 6th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
When I was 19 I was in AA and there were a lot of homosexuals in my homegroup. I am heterosexual and many kept on hitting on me. A few of them were held in high esteem because they had good jobs and a lot of sobriety. Well the majority of them that I knew back in the 80’s who told me there was nothing wrong with promiscuis homosexuality are now dead of AIDS. I dropped out of AA and continued drinking another 20 years and I outlived them.
Also at another AA club that was full of straight people there was a lot of sexual activity going on. I was ostracized because I was old fashioned. One guy told me “just lie to the chick if she is into to Green Peace then you are into Green Peace.” He exclaimed he always told women he loved them and lied to them to get them into bed.
Well anyway I have quit drinking now and I have been married 11 years. Even while drinking I was faithful to my wife. I believe marriage is till death do you part. I was severly criticized in AA for this belief. They told me I was judgemental. I still go to church and I still prefer not to associate with immoral people.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:10 am
This is very sad to know…those people have changed the meaning intervention…Many want to seek help so that they are not alone in their struggle any longer, preferring recovery and health instead.
The intervention team becomes part of their support network. Each member shares his or her own experiences with the addict and the problems arising from the addiction.
September 1st, 2007 at 12:41 am
From the looks of your comments, I am concerned that you are over-run with dittoheads here…ala rush limbaugh. In spite of that, I hope you will consider my thinking.
I find the doings in the DC group appalling, though in no way unique to AA. I was thinking more of sex addicts everywhere and men who are in power…a minority of men to be sure.
What I find equally shocking are some of your misrepresentations. I actually called the New York office of AA after reading part of your rant to see what their official stance on medications are and they stated that that is an issue between a member and their physician and members who operate otherwise are not following AA traditions. I used to work in treatment myself many years ago, and was horrified that they suggested people stop their meds, even though for some it was workable…for others, death eventually.
You make many good points but when you become extreme and hyperbolic, you are the polarity or AA, and seeming to also suffer from some perceptual cage. Is it possible that each theory has merit and also weaknesses?
As for Mike Q…may he roast wherever those who violate sacred trusts go to roast. Thanks for your time.
September 6th, 2007 at 12:21 am
I find it a little surprising that the only comments that are on here are from people who agree with you. I am involved in AA, but I think it would be fair to have a little more balance here. I think it is absolutely horrible that this midtown group was not only taking these actions, but also seemed to be encouraging them. On the other hand, to say that AA is riddled with sexual deviance is a very wide and open judgment.
In the 5 years that I’ve been involved in AA I have seen some evidence of 13th stepping. But it has always been from a small percentage of the members. And generally, those members don’t stick around for too long. I understand where you are coming from though. I mean, there seems to be some necessity in creating dramatic buzz around a fellowship that you seem to be competing with. But I will say that your tone seems angry. Why are you so angry at AA? This site surprised me because it seems more “anti-AA” than “pro-recovery”. I think that your program is great. My opinion is that if it helps people to better their lives than it must be a good thing. I just don’t see the point in bashing a group that helps people. Whether it be Rational Recovery, AA, Church, the Psychology Community, etc.
I have a feeling that this post won’t see the light of day on your site, but I hope it does. For the sake of those who might have been helped by a program that has done nothing wrong. Even if a few of its trees are ugly, the forest is still majestic and beautiful.
Thanks,
Tom D.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:59 am
Hi Jack,
Did you once say that it was your mission (Goal) to “Destroy AA”? Could you please direct me to that article or quote? Thank You.
Danny S
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:36 am
I agree with other’s comments about this being common place in the Program. I’m a 29 year old gay man that’s been a member for 1 1/2 years. I was 13th Stepped by my first sponsor. There are lots of jokes about 13th Stepping in the program, but it’s NOT funny.
I was a meth whore when I was using heavily. When I first came into the Program, I was not thinking very clearly due to very heavy drug use. My sponsor took advantage of this. I realize I was not underage at the time, but I was willing “to go to any lengths to stay sober.” If that meant having sex with my sponsor, I was willing to do it.
The Midtown DC Group is not the first, last, or unique in anyway. Often, in meetings, people will talk about going to meetings when they are traveling and find that although each group has it’s nuances, you can always depend on feeling at “home” in an AA meeting…that they are not that different.
I’m glad I’ve found RR and AVRT. I’m not sure I’m ready to leave the recovery groups yet…I’ll miss my friends, but this is a start in the right direction. I came to AA looking to stop using meth and found a Higher Power instead. That’s all well and good, but I still keep using (not as much as I used to, but meth isn’t a drug you can use part time very easily). So, I need something that delivers what it promises: how to stop using drugs and stay stopped forever.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Hello to Tom D.,
When I first came to the Rational Recovery web site,I was a little curious about the anti AA tone, but the longer you live in RR and use AVRT the more you become genuinely concerned for all the people you used to know in AA.
I think it would be politically correct for RR to say nice things about people in the recovery movement but it would be hypocritical.In RR we never drink,in AA you reserve the right.
The simple truth is,follow RR and never drink again,follow AA and like “riding a motorcycle”,it’s not WILL I fall off,it’s WHEN.
P.S. my family really appreciates the apprx. 350 hours I spent with them in the last 7 months that was previously spent in meetings.
Think about that for a minute,no drinking and more quality family time.
In my humble opinion this is the winning combination that makes life more fulfilling.
All the best,Todd D.
November 1st, 2007 at 5:36 pm
AA belongs in a museum along with 17th century torture devices and other antiques that are no longer in use. AA is an inveritable antique that has not changed over the years and never worked in the first place. All judges that mandate people to the 12 step program ought to be indicted for High Treason against humanity. Bravo to Jack and Lois Trimpey and RR.
November 5th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
“You are wrong and I am right. AA is completely wrong and ATVR is perfect.”
Dear Track Gimpey,
Priceless. Anyone who uses or believes in statements like this on any level of life is in more trouble than any substance can get them into. A fool and his money, don’t you know…
November 7th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
I have to admit that AA saved me for about 5 days out of my life even though I had been in and out of the program several times over the past 15 years. Some of the complaints above were problems for me too. For example, I never could wrap myself around the “I’m Kari, and I’m an alcoholic” routine. I refused to be defined solely and above all else an alcoholic because when I wasn’t drinking, I wasn’t an alcoholic.
When I was drinking, I was a drunk. Plain and simple.
Another problem I had was “admitting I was powerless.” With RATIONAL recovery I’ve been given the RIGHT to say “I AM NOT POWERLESS, AND I WILL NEVER DRINK AGAIN.” When my beast whispers to me I tell it point blank “Go away, you’re not in AA anymore, I am in charge.”
My sponsor in AA kept insisting that I accompany her to meetings all over town which seemed to be social gatherings for whiners. In the meantime, I had quit drinking, was working full time, had two kids at home, and was finishing my bachelor’s degree. My sponsor kept telling me that I should forget all of that and do 90 meetings in 90 days to “ensure” my sobriety because the fellowship comes first and by my involvement in the program I was also helping her stay sober. It was pure insanity. I fired her as my sponsor and never went back to AA again.
As a divorced woman in the program, I had at least 10 guys a week ask for my phone number “just in case” they needed someone to talk to if they were about to relapse. There was nothing anonymous about it and quite risky if you ask me.
Why did I go to AA in the first place? There was nothing else available and my drug and alcohol counselor required it. If I didn’t attend these religious freakfests twice a week, on top of the three outpatient group sessions a week, she would advise the court that I start all over again. That was the first time in AA.
The second or third times that I went back over the years were by my own choice because there simply was nothing else available and they convinced me that I would get drunk if I didn’t do the meetings. The ironic part is that although I never went to a meeting drunk, I wanted to slit my wrists and throw myself into a vat of whiskey every time I walked out just to be done with the madness of AA and it’s perpetual “victims.”
Thank you Jack and Lois, sanity is restored.
January 16th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
why is it that anyone who disagrees with you has their point of view re-phrased and mis-stated? How can anyone feel their philosophy is always right and another always wrong? You seem to be suffering from the very kind of psychological myopia that causes you to be rabid regarding AA. It is unfortunate, because both organizations have done, and have the capacity to do, great good. As well as suffer from deep flaws based on the humans who lead them and their perceptual biases. Can sanity only be restored when the point of view coincides with yours? Or is their room for error, for growth, for change?
Sincerely,
Elaine
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:34 pm
I must confess after reading through the bloggs The AA rooms of today are often down right embarrising for many of us. I’m truely baffled how in 4 days you can change a lying, cheating, stealing drunken horse theif and impact that type of as you say moral accountablity? Sure there abastain, but doe;s that mentor them with life skills that they lacked over 40 years of there boozing carrier? Sure he abstaining, however, personal integrity, true charactor and meaning what you say and say what you mean just happens in 4 days of your silver bullet cure.
I have watch to many good men and woman die from the big lye we all where sold long before I ever used. What part of growing up with alcholic Mom, and a Father who would litteral by the time I was 8 put me in the ER MORE time then I can remember. We don’t choose our parents Today we have great relationship, but my pop passed on a modal he was given from his parents. So Dr Phil, Explain to me how for days of positive cheatering in my mirrior will change 40 years of shame guilt and emptiness’
By the way while I do periododically attend AA meeting, but I must confess it resembles very little of the solution and more about people yapping and finding somewhere to stuff theirs bellies after the meeting