I have watch to many good men and woman die from the big lye we all where sold long before I ever used. What part of growing up with alcholic Mom, and a Father who would litteral by the time I was 8 put me in the ER MORE time then I can remember. We don’t choose our parents Today we have great relationship, but my pop passed on a modal he was given from his parents. So Dr Phil, Explain to me how for days of positive cheatering in my mirrior will change 40 years of shame guilt and emptiness’

By the way while I do periododically attend AA meeting, but I must confess it resembles very little of the solution and more about people yapping and finding somewhere to stuff theirs bellies after the meeting

Elaine,

If you believe anything you also believe is wrong or incorrect, then you all of your screws are loose. I am right, and others are wrong. If you agree with me, then you’re right. If you don’t, you’re wrong. Deal with it.

I suspect that recovery groups have turned your brain to pudding. If you agree with this, then you’re really crazy. Get it?

Hold your breath: The Addictive Voice is any thinking that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or other drugs. The AV is the sole cause of addiction. Every word of the “Big Book” of Alcoholics Anonymous exactly fits the definition of the Addictive Voice. AA is 100% wrong, wrong, wrong, and has helped no one at all, ever — not even its founders.
Jack Trimpey

When I was drinking, I was a drunk. Plain and simple.

Another problem I had was “admitting I was powerless.” With RATIONAL recovery I’ve been given the RIGHT to say “I AM NOT POWERLESS, AND I WILL NEVER DRINK AGAIN.” When my beast whispers to me I tell it point blank “Go away, you’re not in AA anymore, I am in charge.”

My sponsor in AA kept insisting that I accompany her to meetings all over town which seemed to be social gatherings for whiners. In the meantime, I had quit drinking, was working full time, had two kids at home, and was finishing my bachelor’s degree. My sponsor kept telling me that I should forget all of that and do 90 meetings in 90 days to “ensure” my sobriety because the fellowship comes first and by my involvement in the program I was also helping her stay sober. It was pure insanity. I fired her as my sponsor and never went back to AA again.

As a divorced woman in the program, I had at least 10 guys a week ask for my phone number “just in case” they needed someone to talk to if they were about to relapse. There was nothing anonymous about it and quite risky if you ask me.

Why did I go to AA in the first place? There was nothing else available and my drug and alcohol counselor required it. If I didn’t attend these religious freakfests twice a week, on top of the three outpatient group sessions a week, she would advise the court that I start all over again. That was the first time in AA.

The second or third times that I went back over the years were by my own choice because there simply was nothing else available and they convinced me that I would get drunk if I didn’t do the meetings. The ironic part is that although I never went to a meeting drunk, I wanted to slit my wrists and throw myself into a vat of whiskey every time I walked out just to be done with the madness of AA and it’s perpetual “victims.”

Thank you Jack and Lois, sanity is restored.

Dear Track Gimpey,

Priceless. Anyone who uses or believes in statements like this on any level of life is in more trouble than any substance can get them into. A fool and his money, don’t you know…

jtapps,

Amazing, that as a 12-stepper you would say this. You hold the 12-step program inerrant, but doubt that anyone can remain perfectly abstinent.

By the way, it’s AVRT®, not ATVR.

Jack Trimpey

Cowboy,

Although your comments sound hyperbolic, I’ll stand by them with the observation that the act of self-intoxication by problem drinkers or so-called “alcoholics” is a crime against humanity. Let me explain.

Total, permanent abstinence is the only sane remedy for an established pattern of problem drinking because the action of alcohol is to impair one’s capacity for moral judgment. That is true of all who drink, but for problem drinkers, even small amounts of alcohol impair their judgment just enough that they might have just one more drink. In that semi-soused condition, their appetites for more alcohol roars to life, demanding continued drinking into deepening drunkenness. They have turned themselves loose on their families and on society as dangerous, wild animals who place others at grave risk of harm, and they neglect their duties and responsibilities to the human family.

Group recoveryism is created by and for addicted people, based on the beliefs and values of addicted people, serving the interests of addicted people, at the expense of humanity. One-day-at-a-time sobriety is a crime against humanity because that arrangement preserves the privilege of drinking/using under the pretext of disease, i.e., “relapse.” Recoveryism has become a massive industry, based upon a vast network of cell groups that exist in literally every city, village, and town. It consists of the growing population of substance abusers, the recovery group movement which feeds into the addiction treatment industry. Every part of our health and social service systems are operated by regulations and social policies created entirely by members of recovery groups in positions of social responsibility.

It follows clearly that judges and other public officials who create and enforce public policies that require problem drinkers and drug addicts to participate in group recoveryism or in the charades of addiction treatment are guilty of crimes against humanity, actually preventing these dangerous substance abusers from summarily quitting the use of alcohol and other drugs. Instead, they are funneled into the recoveryism industry, where they are instilled with addict-identity and force-fed debilitating doctrines that sharply contradict each participant’s ancestral heritage. Thus, problem drinking and drug using is converted to chronic addiction, and those who would otherwise quit altogether are identified as those who are “sicker than others.”

There can be no more forceful attack on the nuclear family than to induce family members to blame their ancestors for their own stupidity and to believe that their immorality and antisocial behavior has its origins in the family’s gene pool. Those who support the recoveryism syndicate are playing a lead role in the destruction of more lives than are claimed by addiction itself, and participating in the destruction of the greatest nation in human history, the United States of America.

Although your comments may sound hyperbolic, Cowboy, they are right on the mark. How sad that we must learn to see in the dark to actually spot the terrible thing, the Beast of addiction, that now runs freely in society. By learning a little AVRT®, anyone can see sharper and become an expert on addiction and recovery, more knowledgeable than physicians and other learned professionals on how to help addicted people and a nation that is also in the belly of the Beast.

Jack Trimpey

I was a meth whore when I was using heavily. When I first came into the Program, I was not thinking very clearly due to very heavy drug use. My sponsor took advantage of this. I realize I was not underage at the time, but I was willing “to go to any lengths to stay sober.” If that meant having sex with my sponsor, I was willing to do it.

The Midtown DC Group is not the first, last, or unique in anyway. Often, in meetings, people will talk about going to meetings when they are traveling and find that although each group has it’s nuances, you can always depend on feeling at “home” in an AA meeting…that they are not that different.

I’m glad I’ve found RR and AVRT. I’m not sure I’m ready to leave the recovery groups yet…I’ll miss my friends, but this is a start in the right direction. I came to AA looking to stop using meth and found a Higher Power instead. That’s all well and good, but I still keep using (not as much as I used to, but meth isn’t a drug you can use part time very easily). So, I need something that delivers what it promises: how to stop using drugs and stay stopped forever.

Ken,

You seem unaware that your continued self-intoxication is profoundly immoral conduct, and that you are drawn to associate with others (recovery groups!) who also have the collective moral intelligence of a snail. I suggest you quit the use of alcohol and other drugs, and sever from the recovery group movement in thought and in deed:

Declaration of Independence

Your Rational Recovery Sponsor

The Crash Course on AVRT®

Cheers,

Jack Trimpey

Did you once say that it was your mission (Goal) to “Destroy AA”? Could you please direct me to that article or quote? Thank You.

Danny S

Danny,

I have said that many times, including this email message. More accurately, I have said that America does not have an addiction problem, nor does she have a substance abuse problem. She has an AA problem.

Millions of men and women are forced into AA/NA every year despite the lack of evidence that 12-step recovery works or produces abstinent outcomes. Part of AA members’ duties is to evangelize 12-step recoveryism and protect AA from criticism, creating the illusion that nothing else can help addicted people. That 12-step juggernaut is what I most want to “destroy.” Whether or not AA survives without its undue influence is of little importance to me, because any involvement freely chosen is fine with me.
Such comments really get 12-steppers howling, but they also reflect and confirm the public’s suspicions that AA is a fellowship of addicted people who know nothing about recovery because none of them, including their founders, defeated their own addictions. Instead, recovery groupers reserve the privilege of relapse, and arrogantly expect their families and society to live under the uncertainty of one-day-at-a-time sobriety.

Cheers,

Jack Trimpey

In the 5 years that I’ve been involved in AA I have seen some evidence of 13th stepping. But it has always been from a small percentage of the members. And generally, those members don’t stick around for too long. I understand where you are coming from though. I mean, there seems to be some necessity in creating dramatic buzz around a fellowship that you seem to be competing with. But I will say that your tone seems angry. Why are you so angry at AA? This site surprised me because it seems more “anti-AA” than “pro-recovery”. I think that your program is great. My opinion is that if it helps people to better their lives than it must be a good thing. I just don’t see the point in bashing a group that helps people. Whether it be Rational Recovery, AA, Church, the Psychology Community, etc.

I have a feeling that this post won’t see the light of day on your site, but I hope it does. For the sake of those who might have been helped by a program that has done nothing wrong. Even if a few of its trees are ugly, the forest is still majestic and beautiful.

Thanks,

Tom D.

Tom,

You fail to recognize that the 12-step program is the doctrinal form of the Addictive Voice. The Addictive Voice is any thinking that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or other drugs. All of AA’s literature, and every word spoken at meetings, fits this definition perfectly. Give me an example of a 12-step belief or axiom that is not Addictive Voice, if you can.

12-step recovery states that unless you do A through Z, you’ll drink again. Pure AV.

In AVRT-based recovery we just decide that we won’t drink/use under any conditions, which means, of course, that we will decline to have any “relapses.” You really should do this and stay home in the evenings with your family, instead of chasing down other substance abusers in church basements. It’s all right here:

Crash Course on AVRT®  

Jack Trimpey

Mike,

You are wrong, and I am right. AA is entirely wrong, and AVRT® is perfect.

You did not give any example of falsehoods or exaggerations.

Jack Trimpey