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	<title>Comments on: Global Warming and Addictive Disease</title>
	<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/</link>
	<description>Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, AA, 12-step</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

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		<title>by: Mike Olson</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-59795</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-59795</guid>
					<description>I really can't do anything but echo the statements of other posters.  Meaning, I was shocked at your notions of Global warming &amp; the basis for liberalism, but I see great insight and wisdom in your views of addiction/alcoholism.  I have no desire to engage in an ad hominem attack, but realize that not only was I pushed away from AA based on their poor use of logic, inconsistencies and intentional obfuscation, but by Bill W's own personal hypocrisies.  Knowing how the &quot;founder&quot; of an organization thinks or where his ideas come from does provide insight.  Rational Recovery is a sound set of ideas.  Your opinion on liberal politics is just that, your own opinion.  I think I come from about 135 degrees around the political compass from where you do.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Mike,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;The central point of the global warming piece is that addictive disease is also an article of faith, promoted by politically-driven science, aimed at exploitation and control of the masses. Global warming is probably the greatest scam in human history, a plot to literally extinguish the flame of human freedom in a pretend end-of-the-world panic induced by the likes of Gore, Obama, using university based political science. Already, an entire generation of youth have been brainwashed into radical, anti-social, anti-family attitudes using sentimental images of sad-eyed creatures suffering from imaginary evils. Worse, the climate scam threatens the cradle of the free world, the United States of America.

I maintain that the addictive disease scam is the greatest public health catastrophe in history, as measured by finances and body count, not to mention human suffering and depletion of the human spirit. I hope to see truth prevail over the recoveryism syndicates which cripple addicted people and burden their families with chronic addiction.

The Harry_Read_Me.txt files only emphasize what has been obvious for years, which is that neo-liberal politics has coalesced into the same axis of evil which threatens the free world. Both scams are sociopathic juggernauts with no respect for truth, making science their whores. We saw the same misuse of science in the Third Reich and in the Soviet Union, where science and medicine were recruited to support tyranny of medical abuse in special hospitals and camps.

I said “neo-” liberal, above, because liberalism has a noble history in the Enlightenment, and was a major influence in the founding of the USA. The liberalism of today has nothing to do with the liberalism of America. Young Americans have become hostile toward traditional, American values, family values, or any other source of public morality. AVRT is simply a working model of a working, moral conscience, returning one to his native beliefs and original family values, which are the foundation for political discourse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really can&#8217;t do anything but echo the statements of other posters.  Meaning, I was shocked at your notions of Global warming &#038; the basis for liberalism, but I see great insight and wisdom in your views of addiction/alcoholism.  I have no desire to engage in an ad hominem attack, but realize that not only was I pushed away from AA based on their poor use of logic, inconsistencies and intentional obfuscation, but by Bill W&#8217;s own personal hypocrisies.  Knowing how the &#8220;founder&#8221; of an organization thinks or where his ideas come from does provide insight.  Rational Recovery is a sound set of ideas.  Your opinion on liberal politics is just that, your own opinion.  I think I come from about 135 degrees around the political compass from where you do.</p>
<blockquote><p>Mike,</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>The central point of the global warming piece is that addictive disease is also an article of faith, promoted by politically-driven science, aimed at exploitation and control of the masses. Global warming is probably the greatest scam in human history, a plot to literally extinguish the flame of human freedom in a pretend end-of-the-world panic induced by the likes of Gore, Obama, using university based political science. Already, an entire generation of youth have been brainwashed into radical, anti-social, anti-family attitudes using sentimental images of sad-eyed creatures suffering from imaginary evils. Worse, the climate scam threatens the cradle of the free world, the United States of America.</p>
<p>I maintain that the addictive disease scam is the greatest public health catastrophe in history, as measured by finances and body count, not to mention human suffering and depletion of the human spirit. I hope to see truth prevail over the recoveryism syndicates which cripple addicted people and burden their families with chronic addiction.</p>
<p>The Harry_Read_Me.txt files only emphasize what has been obvious for years, which is that neo-liberal politics has coalesced into the same axis of evil which threatens the free world. Both scams are sociopathic juggernauts with no respect for truth, making science their whores. We saw the same misuse of science in the Third Reich and in the Soviet Union, where science and medicine were recruited to support tyranny of medical abuse in special hospitals and camps.</p>
<p>I said “neo-” liberal, above, because liberalism has a noble history in the Enlightenment, and was a major influence in the founding of the USA. The liberalism of today has nothing to do with the liberalism of America. Young Americans have become hostile toward traditional, American values, family values, or any other source of public morality. AVRT is simply a working model of a working, moral conscience, returning one to his native beliefs and original family values, which are the foundation for political discourse.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: linda</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-45934</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-45934</guid>
					<description>Jack Trimpey and his method of AVRT saved my life, and I regard him as a great hero. His views on the issue of global warming are irrelevant, although I find it astounding that someone with such amazing insight into the problem of substance addiction could be so naive regarding global warming.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Linda,

Congratulations on defeating your addiction! AVRT-based recovery restores you to your original, better self, as you were before slipping into the swampland of addictive pleasures. You can be proud that your original family values were not dysfunctional but the foundation of your adult identity.

You have great certainty about global warming, while others aren’t so sure about politically-inspired weather forecasts. This article, however, is about how the global warming movement exactly mimics the way the disease concept of addiction has been carried forward by the recovery group movement, using bad science, suppression of dissent, political invective, and righteous certainty. I did acknowledge some problems that exist with human stewardship of the environment, but I simply find the political intrigue and sci-fi fantasy surrounding the green movement revolting. Likewise, although substance abuse is a serious social problem, I find the bad science and bad religion surrounding the recovery group movement revolting.
Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Trimpey and his method of AVRT saved my life, and I regard him as a great hero. His views on the issue of global warming are irrelevant, although I find it astounding that someone with such amazing insight into the problem of substance addiction could be so naive regarding global warming.</p>
<blockquote><p>Linda,</p>
<p>Congratulations on defeating your addiction! AVRT-based recovery restores you to your original, better self, as you were before slipping into the swampland of addictive pleasures. You can be proud that your original family values were not dysfunctional but the foundation of your adult identity.</p>
<p>You have great certainty about global warming, while others aren’t so sure about politically-inspired weather forecasts. This article, however, is about how the global warming movement exactly mimics the way the disease concept of addiction has been carried forward by the recovery group movement, using bad science, suppression of dissent, political invective, and righteous certainty. I did acknowledge some problems that exist with human stewardship of the environment, but I simply find the political intrigue and sci-fi fantasy surrounding the green movement revolting. Likewise, although substance abuse is a serious social problem, I find the bad science and bad religion surrounding the recovery group movement revolting.<br />
Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Willy</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-42924</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-42924</guid>
					<description>Tom C. (or is it 'Tim C.'?)

Don't drink and post. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom C. (or is it &#8216;Tim C.&#8217;?)</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t drink and post. <img src='http://rational.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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		<title>by: Anon.</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-42904</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-42904</guid>
					<description>I suppose anybody can use their blog for whatever they want, but what does global warming have to do with RR anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose anybody can use their blog for whatever they want, but what does global warming have to do with RR anyway?
</p>
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		<title>by: Ann W.</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-41718</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 21:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-41718</guid>
					<description>Please accept my gratitude for Rational Recovery/AVRT. Perhaps, as a cautiously open-minded and intelligent woman who can both think and spell above the sixth grade level, I can add something of value.

During the 1980's and 1990's I was steeped in the ACOA, Alanon, and AA philosophy.  I'll share two of the many insights I've gained through the years.  One, this philosophy/religion of AA and its spin-offs can destroy families. My first introduction to this world was through ACOA.  I ended up alienated from my mother, as my sponsor said I needed to &quot;let the dead bury the dead&quot;. Otherwise, my &quot;disease&quot; would worsen and I would be caught in the role as &quot;enabler&quot;.  My mother was left alone by all her children; she died alone.  Yeah, she had several cocktails a day. She was blind and physically disabled.  I'd gone to ACOA with a friend who'd asked for support.  ACOA convinced me my mother was an alcoholic.  Oh, and because I liked to get drunk on weekends, so was I.  It's inherited, you know.

So, I waltzed into an AA meeting and I learned how to relapse.  I decided to quit drinking altogether in 1984. That lasted until 1999, not long after my mother died.  My AV, with great stealth, asked if maybe a drink would help quell that nasty grief (guilt) that was making me feel so bad.  That worked out real well for the consoling beast.  When I returned to AA (still had that belief system in my head), I looked around and saw a room full of victims.  Victims of what?  Our own choices. Our own immorality.

They called this a disease.  I gave into the relapse myth and spent several years on that merry-go-round of a couple days sober, several days not. Why not?  I liked the way booze made me feel. Although, I didn't like it so much the next day.

Now, the second insight is this: I hate being a victim of anything or anyone. I do not believe anyone can be a victim unless he or she is a dead one. It's not what happens to me, but how I deal with it that determines if I'll be a victim. I knew what I was doing was wrong, wrong, wrong.  Then, I began to understand  I was a victim of my stealth decision to go on ahead, buy a bottle. In or out of AA, I was still a victim.
Oddly, I felt so calm and happy when I realized I was going to go on ahead and buy a bottle. The only way I could quit being a victim was just to quit drinking! I did not trust myself though and struggled with fear of &quot;relapsing&quot; and doubt in my resolve.  I found RR on the internet, bought the book and I am now the only statistic I'm interested in.  That AV beast can bugger off and die.  I'm not its victim any more. I'll never drink again or darken the doors of any AA group or one of its bastard offspring recovery groups.

The issue of global warming dovetails beautifully with Jack's observations about our American society's passivity, much influenced by the religion of AA. We are being asked to believe in something in totality with consequences we cannot predict, like government control of our every move and purchase.                                                            I was young, immature and &quot;open-minded&quot; when I walked into that very first ACOA meeting.  I regret a lot, but not ever enough today or any day to pick up and use again. Carry on!  Ann
&lt;blockquote&gt;Ann,

You are a living example of recovery group disorder and independent recovery through your own native beliefs and original family values. You have also documented the anti-family nature of 12-step recoveryism, and the dismissive attitude of recovery groups toward their own flesh and blood. The disease concept of addiction is an attack on one’s biological origins, and the dysfunctional family doctrines make destruction of the family tree fairly complete. That simplifies the outrageous claim of recovery groups to be “your new family,” and of course, their condescension toward religious traditions is nothing more than raw fear of moral injunction, which you finally discovered is the only antidote for substance addiction. By taking responsibility for your personal conduct, you no longer must struggle to “be good” every day for fear that you’ll lie, cheat, and steal.

Recoveryism is &lt;em&gt;worse&lt;/em&gt; than racism because it uses &lt;em&gt;implied&lt;/em&gt; markers rather than what can be seen. Take pride in your family and your ancestors, and never surrender to authorities who would suggest you are genetically defective in a way affects your honor, your freedom, and your identity.

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please accept my gratitude for Rational Recovery/AVRT. Perhaps, as a cautiously open-minded and intelligent woman who can both think and spell above the sixth grade level, I can add something of value.</p>
<p>During the 1980&#8217;s and 1990&#8217;s I was steeped in the ACOA, Alanon, and AA philosophy.  I&#8217;ll share two of the many insights I&#8217;ve gained through the years.  One, this philosophy/religion of AA and its spin-offs can destroy families. My first introduction to this world was through ACOA.  I ended up alienated from my mother, as my sponsor said I needed to &#8220;let the dead bury the dead&#8221;. Otherwise, my &#8220;disease&#8221; would worsen and I would be caught in the role as &#8220;enabler&#8221;.  My mother was left alone by all her children; she died alone.  Yeah, she had several cocktails a day. She was blind and physically disabled.  I&#8217;d gone to ACOA with a friend who&#8217;d asked for support.  ACOA convinced me my mother was an alcoholic.  Oh, and because I liked to get drunk on weekends, so was I.  It&#8217;s inherited, you know.</p>
<p>So, I waltzed into an AA meeting and I learned how to relapse.  I decided to quit drinking altogether in 1984. That lasted until 1999, not long after my mother died.  My AV, with great stealth, asked if maybe a drink would help quell that nasty grief (guilt) that was making me feel so bad.  That worked out real well for the consoling beast.  When I returned to AA (still had that belief system in my head), I looked around and saw a room full of victims.  Victims of what?  Our own choices. Our own immorality.</p>
<p>They called this a disease.  I gave into the relapse myth and spent several years on that merry-go-round of a couple days sober, several days not. Why not?  I liked the way booze made me feel. Although, I didn&#8217;t like it so much the next day.</p>
<p>Now, the second insight is this: I hate being a victim of anything or anyone. I do not believe anyone can be a victim unless he or she is a dead one. It&#8217;s not what happens to me, but how I deal with it that determines if I&#8217;ll be a victim. I knew what I was doing was wrong, wrong, wrong.  Then, I began to understand  I was a victim of my stealth decision to go on ahead, buy a bottle. In or out of AA, I was still a victim.<br />
Oddly, I felt so calm and happy when I realized I was going to go on ahead and buy a bottle. The only way I could quit being a victim was just to quit drinking! I did not trust myself though and struggled with fear of &#8220;relapsing&#8221; and doubt in my resolve.  I found RR on the internet, bought the book and I am now the only statistic I&#8217;m interested in.  That AV beast can bugger off and die.  I&#8217;m not its victim any more. I&#8217;ll never drink again or darken the doors of any AA group or one of its bastard offspring recovery groups.</p>
<p>The issue of global warming dovetails beautifully with Jack&#8217;s observations about our American society&#8217;s passivity, much influenced by the religion of AA. We are being asked to believe in something in totality with consequences we cannot predict, like government control of our every move and purchase.                                                            I was young, immature and &#8220;open-minded&#8221; when I walked into that very first ACOA meeting.  I regret a lot, but not ever enough today or any day to pick up and use again. Carry on!  Ann</p>
<blockquote><p>Ann,</p>
<p>You are a living example of recovery group disorder and independent recovery through your own native beliefs and original family values. You have also documented the anti-family nature of 12-step recoveryism, and the dismissive attitude of recovery groups toward their own flesh and blood. The disease concept of addiction is an attack on one’s biological origins, and the dysfunctional family doctrines make destruction of the family tree fairly complete. That simplifies the outrageous claim of recovery groups to be “your new family,” and of course, their condescension toward religious traditions is nothing more than raw fear of moral injunction, which you finally discovered is the only antidote for substance addiction. By taking responsibility for your personal conduct, you no longer must struggle to “be good” every day for fear that you’ll lie, cheat, and steal.</p>
<p>Recoveryism is <em>worse</em> than racism because it uses <em>implied</em> markers rather than what can be seen. Take pride in your family and your ancestors, and never surrender to authorities who would suggest you are genetically defective in a way affects your honor, your freedom, and your identity.</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Mary</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-41619</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-41619</guid>
					<description>Tim C closes a snark-post with &quot;God Bless&quot;.  I'm sure his God would be proud of him.

What the heck is wrong with you people?  Has this man not helped you; has he not zeroed in on a simple, powerful truth that you can use to change your life and presented it to you free of charge?

Ingrates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim C closes a snark-post with &#8220;God Bless&#8221;.  I&#8217;m sure his God would be proud of him.</p>
<p>What the heck is wrong with you people?  Has this man not helped you; has he not zeroed in on a simple, powerful truth that you can use to change your life and presented it to you free of charge?</p>
<p>Ingrates.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim C</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-38306</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-38306</guid>
					<description>What Happen Dr Phil? You seemed Like a very open minded itelligent Guy. Purhaps indiviuals that can think above the sixth grade level threated your over sized Pride and mis guided ego...
Please except my apology.

God Bless,
Tom C</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Happen Dr Phil? You seemed Like a very open minded itelligent Guy. Purhaps indiviuals that can think above the sixth grade level threated your over sized Pride and mis guided ego&#8230;<br />
Please except my apology.</p>
<p>God Bless,<br />
Tom C
</p>
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		<title>by: thiggy</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-35813</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-35813</guid>
					<description>I agree with CTMS. Although I did not read Janes entire post, I would like to point out that it would be unreasonable to expect Mr. Trimpey to provide the benefits of AVRT at no cost to himself. That would be an expensive undertaking. I experienced two deferred prosecutions, three treatment centers, hundreds of AA meetings and I have to say that the cost to me was much greater financially, emotionally and a waste of my time. I spent the greater part of that time rebelling and screaming &quot;NO! THIS ISN'T RIGHT!&quot; And I left the programs still drinking and using with the certainty that treatment centers are nothing but a racket. Years later I went to the library, having heard about RR and checked out Rational Recovery - The New Cure For Substance Addiction. (Yes, I'm plugging the book.) By the end of the second chapter I had it. For free. Other people might need more training in AVRT than I did, hence the subscriptions, etc. I do not have an opinion on global warning, nor am I informed enough to have an opinion on politics. I do know that now I do not subscribe to anything, do not belong to any groups, and I do not have to conform to the consensus that because I selfishly chose to drink and use I must spend the rest of my life perpetually caught in the quagmire of &quot;alcoholism&quot; with all it's self loathing and everlasting pronouncements of such. I'm done. That which defines the different between AA and RR. No, it's not thank God. But thank Jack, for naming and sharing the tools of AVRT and offering an alternative to the 12. I hope he's filthy rich.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Thiggy,

Interesting comments about the idea that I should provide the benefits of AVRT® at my own expense, without any compensation for my efforts. That is a fundamental belief of AA, complete with the parable of the errant Bill W whose error was simply &lt;em&gt;thinking&lt;/em&gt; about earning money by using AA. Mr. W was chastened by his inner circle so that now AA is a “self-supporting, non-profit organization,” which of course is an oxymoronic description of an impossible entity, sort of like Dr. Seuss’s push-me-pull-you.

For decades, I have received an endless stream of hate mail from 12-steppers who confer the Curse of AA upon me, i.e., that I am a greedy, money-grubber who exploits the sick, the weak, and the disabled. They insist that I should exist for the sake of serving “alcoholics” and other substance abusers, and to be grateful for the privilege of doing so. The arrogance of addiction is boundless, as seen in irresolute substance abusers’ demands for free stuff.
However, none of them notice that the essentials of AVRT-based recovery are &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://rational.org/recover.html&quot;&gt;posted free of charge&lt;/a&gt; in the form of programmed instruction. Nor do they care that my professional services not only lead to immediate total recovery,  but cost about 10% as much as ineffective 12-step oriented programs that amount to a very expensive introduction to life in recovery.

Charity for substance abusers is about as upside-down as an idea can get, but through the magic of steptalk, it has become a popular idea. Who could be less entitled to charity than those who pursue pleasure at the expense of their families, or who expect their own families to live under the uncertainty of one-day-at-a-time sobriety?

Jack Trimpey&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with CTMS. Although I did not read Janes entire post, I would like to point out that it would be unreasonable to expect Mr. Trimpey to provide the benefits of AVRT at no cost to himself. That would be an expensive undertaking. I experienced two deferred prosecutions, three treatment centers, hundreds of AA meetings and I have to say that the cost to me was much greater financially, emotionally and a waste of my time. I spent the greater part of that time rebelling and screaming &#8220;NO! THIS ISN&#8217;T RIGHT!&#8221; And I left the programs still drinking and using with the certainty that treatment centers are nothing but a racket. Years later I went to the library, having heard about RR and checked out Rational Recovery - The New Cure For Substance Addiction. (Yes, I&#8217;m plugging the book.) By the end of the second chapter I had it. For free. Other people might need more training in AVRT than I did, hence the subscriptions, etc. I do not have an opinion on global warning, nor am I informed enough to have an opinion on politics. I do know that now I do not subscribe to anything, do not belong to any groups, and I do not have to conform to the consensus that because I selfishly chose to drink and use I must spend the rest of my life perpetually caught in the quagmire of &#8220;alcoholism&#8221; with all it&#8217;s self loathing and everlasting pronouncements of such. I&#8217;m done. That which defines the different between AA and RR. No, it&#8217;s not thank God. But thank Jack, for naming and sharing the tools of AVRT and offering an alternative to the 12. I hope he&#8217;s filthy rich.</p>
<blockquote><p>Thiggy,</p>
<p>Interesting comments about the idea that I should provide the benefits of AVRT® at my own expense, without any compensation for my efforts. That is a fundamental belief of AA, complete with the parable of the errant Bill W whose error was simply <em>thinking</em> about earning money by using AA. Mr. W was chastened by his inner circle so that now AA is a “self-supporting, non-profit organization,” which of course is an oxymoronic description of an impossible entity, sort of like Dr. Seuss’s push-me-pull-you.</p>
<p>For decades, I have received an endless stream of hate mail from 12-steppers who confer the Curse of AA upon me, i.e., that I am a greedy, money-grubber who exploits the sick, the weak, and the disabled. They insist that I should exist for the sake of serving “alcoholics” and other substance abusers, and to be grateful for the privilege of doing so. The arrogance of addiction is boundless, as seen in irresolute substance abusers’ demands for free stuff.<br />
However, none of them notice that the essentials of AVRT-based recovery are <a target="_blank" href="http://rational.org/recover.html">posted free of charge</a> in the form of programmed instruction. Nor do they care that my professional services not only lead to immediate total recovery,  but cost about 10% as much as ineffective 12-step oriented programs that amount to a very expensive introduction to life in recovery.</p>
<p>Charity for substance abusers is about as upside-down as an idea can get, but through the magic of steptalk, it has become a popular idea. Who could be less entitled to charity than those who pursue pleasure at the expense of their families, or who expect their own families to live under the uncertainty of one-day-at-a-time sobriety?</p>
<p>Jack Trimpey</p></blockquote>
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		<title>by: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-35569</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-35569</guid>
					<description>I am not replying to your intellectual argument you folks are having. But am finding that it is very interesting. I would like to first state that I had a serious problem for years with many drugs. As I can tell from what you all have written I may have beaten my addiction in a similar way to Jack system, program or whatever you may call it. I am actually looking into this for my wife whom I love and care about deeply. She currenty has problems not only with drugs but alcohol as well. She has a very fragile personallity. Most of her family has gotton clean thru AA or NA. She recently had about 5 months clean went to rehab for five days, after attending rehab she immediately came out and began using. I do not want to destroy what she has done in the past and her beliefs about AA/NA but want to find a solution. One of the major problems as she states is that she finds more connections in rehab and at meatings. She finds people she is drawn to because of their use and using personallities. I will be taking the online course and reading the suggested book before presenting it to her. But would like your comments about the &quot;system&quot; and maybe some others comments as well. Also I would like to mention I am not wealthy and could not afford to send her to a 4 day or 2 day program. I am however able to afford to buy the literature. AA/NA seem to miss something, I believe it is personal strenth and reliance on one's self to be accountable for their own actions more they preach to depend on others in a similar situation to draw strength from, which as you see in the future will be a downfall in todays society. It is untaught in our society to be accountable for yor own actions anymore but to put blame on others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not replying to your intellectual argument you folks are having. But am finding that it is very interesting. I would like to first state that I had a serious problem for years with many drugs. As I can tell from what you all have written I may have beaten my addiction in a similar way to Jack system, program or whatever you may call it. I am actually looking into this for my wife whom I love and care about deeply. She currenty has problems not only with drugs but alcohol as well. She has a very fragile personallity. Most of her family has gotton clean thru AA or NA. She recently had about 5 months clean went to rehab for five days, after attending rehab she immediately came out and began using. I do not want to destroy what she has done in the past and her beliefs about AA/NA but want to find a solution. One of the major problems as she states is that she finds more connections in rehab and at meatings. She finds people she is drawn to because of their use and using personallities. I will be taking the online course and reading the suggested book before presenting it to her. But would like your comments about the &#8220;system&#8221; and maybe some others comments as well. Also I would like to mention I am not wealthy and could not afford to send her to a 4 day or 2 day program. I am however able to afford to buy the literature. AA/NA seem to miss something, I believe it is personal strenth and reliance on one&#8217;s self to be accountable for their own actions more they preach to depend on others in a similar situation to draw strength from, which as you see in the future will be a downfall in todays society. It is untaught in our society to be accountable for yor own actions anymore but to put blame on others.
</p>
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		<title>by: Rosemary</title>
		<link>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-33672</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://rational.org/blog/52/#comment-33672</guid>
					<description>Jane, you almost had me.

I tend to lean toward your politics rather than Jack's, and I thought you made one or two good points about the conversation with Cynthia.  

However, one-quarter of the way through your post, you digress with &quot;Some other questions and observations&quot; and go off on a very, very long tangent that nitpicks at Jack and his way of conducting his work.  Many of your charges could have been answered ahead of time by a little research.  I admit I could not drag myself completely through it, but I did skim and see that you were quibbling about levels of subscription, etc.  

Frankly, I miss the good old days when Jack's forum was free; I loved reading it.  Even then, however, Jack expressed concern that the forum might devolve into entertainment and a form of recovery-groupism.  If charging a fee will weed out all but the serious and committed, those who need to be there, I won't argue with that.

Furthermore, it really pisses me off when people carp at Jack for charging quite reasonable and modest prices for extra help (and not being  Mother Teresa), when he does offer enough for free to help a truly open person &quot;get it.&quot;

Throwing everything but the kitchen sink at Jack really blunted your point and lessened your credibility.

This is not the first time I have disagreed with things Jack has said on this blog -- but fundamentally, I believe deeply in his main message that we humans have free will and are not diseased.   This is a life-changing and life-affirming message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, you almost had me.</p>
<p>I tend to lean toward your politics rather than Jack&#8217;s, and I thought you made one or two good points about the conversation with Cynthia.  </p>
<p>However, one-quarter of the way through your post, you digress with &#8220;Some other questions and observations&#8221; and go off on a very, very long tangent that nitpicks at Jack and his way of conducting his work.  Many of your charges could have been answered ahead of time by a little research.  I admit I could not drag myself completely through it, but I did skim and see that you were quibbling about levels of subscription, etc.  </p>
<p>Frankly, I miss the good old days when Jack&#8217;s forum was free; I loved reading it.  Even then, however, Jack expressed concern that the forum might devolve into entertainment and a form of recovery-groupism.  If charging a fee will weed out all but the serious and committed, those who need to be there, I won&#8217;t argue with that.</p>
<p>Furthermore, it really pisses me off when people carp at Jack for charging quite reasonable and modest prices for extra help (and not being  Mother Teresa), when he does offer enough for free to help a truly open person &#8220;get it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Throwing everything but the kitchen sink at Jack really blunted your point and lessened your credibility.</p>
<p>This is not the first time I have disagreed with things Jack has said on this blog &#8212; but fundamentally, I believe deeply in his main message that we humans have free will and are not diseased.   This is a life-changing and life-affirming message.
</p>
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