posted 01-09-2003 01:53 PM            

As you know, I have a special place in my heart for 12-steppers who are also members of AA, and use their credentials and social authority to persuasively or forcefully recruit their own clients into the 12-step cult. These "two-hatters," as they have affectionately dubbed themselves, started this excursion into conflict of interest soon after the 12-step cult started, and in typical fashion, self-consciously excused themselves from ethics violations with saccarine steptalk.

The following letter came in recently, and since the BBS has been down, I'll kick off some discussoin by posting it below. It is a perfect example of the condescending ire exuded by substance abuse counselors everywhere. I swear that two-steppers are like string-dolls that talk when you pull the string and let it go.

Jack Trimpey

Mr. Trimpey,

I think it's interesting that you refer to alcoholism as "the Beast" clearly a Judeo-Christian name for Satan while you denounce Christianity and the suggestion of finding strength in God or a Higher Power. I have never met a single soul who has achieved any long term moderation or sobriety that is involved with your group and I've treated many over the past 15 years. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of such a success. I truly believe that you have an ax to grind and are purposely misleading people who are desperate for God's love and power to help them. If they could have done it by themselves they would have done so. You may be too narcissistic to grasp what I'm saying but I believe you and your group block people from God's grace by fostering hope in the very agent that has kept them in illness - themselves. I will pray for you and your organization. The Lord has not turned away from you. It is you that has turned away from Him.

-- James J. Hardiman

posted 01-09-2003 04:48 PM            

L.

[This message has been edited by LCFREE (edited 01-09-2003).]

posted 01-09-2003 07:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Admin5:
All,

I have never met a single soul who has achieved any long term moderation or sobriety that is involved with your group In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of such a success.

-- James J. Hardiman

[/B]

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posted 01-09-2003 09:12 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Admin5:

[b]
I believe you and your group block people from God's grace by fostering hope in the very agent that has kept them in illness - themselves.

-- James J. Hardiman

[/B]

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Beware the wolf that masks itself in a cloak of the lamb.

Not long ago, I conducted a brief assessment with a 50 year old junkie with a 30 year habit who is fearful of a third strike for felony possession of heroin. He has been through rehab 3 times and every outcome has been a dismal failure. Here is a tough-as-nails biker ex-felon who is trying to go straight through tapping into his own inner will against the needle. He struggles against the "powerless" bullshit of 12-steppism but he buys into just enough of it to writhe in the grip a serious recovery group disorder. This guy broke down sobbing in the interview booth as he described his desperation over a perceived inability to remain clean. He is profoundly conflicted between the pull of his beast and the prospect of 25-to-life in a penitentiary. In his case folder, there are notations from a drug counselor that predict a complete bottoming out for this man, due to his unwillingness to work a good program.

No doubt that the sentiment of this counselor is cut from the same cancerous swatch as that of our dear Mr. Hardiman. And it denies my client the truth of his human nature; both about his addiction and about the power he has to defeat it.

posted 01-09-2003 10:28 PM            

A person who has made a big plan and knows AVRT would never go to you for help. A person who has decided never to drink again by definition doesn't need to go to a drug counselor to help him quit drinking. Secondly RR people believe in maintaining their privacy they do not confess their drinking sins in public. A person who embraces RR takes responsibility for their drinking behavoir. They know only they can quit drinking. They don't expect sympathy for choosing to drink or drug to excess. People who embrace AVRT the new cure know they don't need help to quit drinking/drugging. They need to make a decision and keep their committment to that decision. Most people who come to RR either know already or learn very quickly afterward that AA and the 12 step groups it spawned are a cult and would avoid like a plague any cult preacher such as your self.

After discovering most of my AA "friends" acted like wacked out cult nut jobs, I have avoided everything 12 step. If you don't believe the 12 steps are a cult just try to leave openly without sneaking out. I did a lot of service in OA and Alanon. Some people suggested I had a cult like attachment to the movement, but I thought they were "devils" trying to steal "my salvation away from me". The fact that I reacted that way when my husband suggested instead of going to meetings 7 days per week, I reduce it to 4 days per week so he could see me sometimes made me pause. I decided to try reducing my meetings to 5 days per week. The resistance I meet from my 12 step "friends" and the warnings I recieved about the danger this posed to my well being, led me to believe this might be a cult. After being humiliated for not saying the correct closing prayer at the end of a meeting I was chairing. I decided no matter what the 12 step groups say AA is a religous organization. I was wrong to explain away all the contradictions. Because I was doing a lot of service, I thought it would be uncool just to not show up anymore. So I let the leadership know that I resigned. They thought just from service. When I said that I resign completely from the 12 step movement 10% of the people were okay about it and supportive to some degree. Everybody else freaked out. One person harassed me with calls calling me a traitor. I told her I was cured and didn't have to go anymore to meetings. She said since the 12 steps healed me, I owed them service in graditude for their help. She refused to except that I quit and would call and curse at me till I let my machine answer all calls. Many called to plead for me to comeback as if I were a beloved about to fall in to a hellish abyss if they didn't save me. I got a lot of verbal abuse, warnings, hatred, desperate pleas, lack of acceptance, and warnings of impending doom if I didn't return to the fold. It was scary. It lasted about 4 months. After that experience, I would run from someone like you. I would never tell you personally what AVRT did for me because AA cultist are not likely to listen and they are lunatics to be avoided.

posted 01-10-2003 07:34 AM            

"it's interesting that you refer to alcoholism as "the Beast" clearly a Judeo-Christian name for Satan while you denounce Christianity and the suggestion of finding strength in God or a Higher Power."

I thought AA wasnt religous,and I have never seen anyone denounce Christianity on this board.Hes not only referring to AA as Religous,but as Christianity.

Mr Hardiman there is Freedom of Religion in this country,and its purpose is to protect Americans from people like you,and not to protect just your beliefs.I dont have to rely on your religion to keep from drinking,I do it all by myself.

Zach

posted 01-10-2003 07:57 AM            

"1.a. An animal other than a human being, especially a large four-footed mammal. b. (New England and Southern U.S.) A large domestic animal, especially a horse or bull. 2. Animal nature as opposed to intellect or spirit: "So far the beast in us has insisted upon having its full say" (William Dean Howells). 3. A brutal, contemptible person."

As hard as I looked, I could find no reference to Satan or the devil. Mr. Hardiman says "the Beast" is "clearly a Judeo-Christian name for Satan". That might seem true from his perspective. But in RR, as in the vast majority of usage, "beast" refers to "animal" or "animal nature".

Mr. Hardiman has missed the structural model of addiction. A certain part of our brain is where our survival instincts, our animal nature, comes from. We can learn to recognize and separate from our animal desires, and then we become more human than ever. We find in ourselves the ability to say "no" to our "beasts". By exercising our free will to say "No, never!", we make a moral decision.

posted 01-10-2003 06:05 PM            

I have posted a link to a university website where the actual study of addiction takes place, and not the study of cult-like group behaviors found in so-called "recovery centers".

I think Mr. Hardiman has some real explaining to do about the denial of his industry to accept the actual science of addiction.

posted 01-11-2003 09:14 AM            

The AVRT model to me, is far more pure and spiritual than the stained, flawed, and utterly derogatory model of AA. The idea that so many lost souls need Mr. Hardiman's (or others) superior guidance is awfully egotistical. But I suppose he cannot be a shepherd if he doesn't make himself some sheep.

posted 01-11-2003 11:43 AM            

Talk about pervasive thinking.

Kevin

posted 01-11-2003 03:49 PM            

The link you posted goes to a page that undertakes to explain neurophysiology. Please explain, in ordinarly language, what does neurophysiology have to do with addiction or recovery? For that matter, what does science have to do with addiction or recovery?

posted 01-12-2003 06:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by riddl:
Glad you asked... ;-)

While it is not necessary to understand this to use AVRT, I think that it does give added ammunition to the cause of eliminating 12 step programs from court ordered addiction recovery. Not using every available piece of ammunition against the existing barrage of motivated AA insiders is, to me, like asking to tear down a concrete wall with a pistol when a canon stands ready nearby, if only someone would ask how to use it.

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This Research is funded by the NIAAA,and they are trying to prove that addiction is a disease.They use this as ammunition for the Recovery Group Treatment Industry.It was started by 12steppers,and there is even a link to AA on their site.

You apparently have a Recovery Group Disorder.

"Presented by Faculty at the University of Texas, Addiction Science Research and Education Center as a service to professionals, clinicians, and the public.
Funded by a science education grant from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism."

ZACH

posted 01-12-2003 01:12 PM            

For now, science has been hijacked, but may someday defeat the junk science of the addiction treatment industry, which includes all federally-funded research as well as the entire constellation of related nonprofit organizations. It doesn't much matter what the future may bring, because recovery does not depend upon the findings of science. Addiction is not even a condition that can be scientifically defined, unless the only consideration is withdrawal syndromes.

In the last few years, Rational Recovery is increasingly entrenched outside the social service system, an underground movement that refuses to enter into dialogue or collaboration with the social service system. The divide is bottomless, as it is a conflict between the interests of the individual and the interests of the state. For example, our advice to those forced into AA is, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's…," which is essentially saying to accept AA as punishment, fake it till you make it, etc. The exception, of course, is when one decides to actually resist, which means noncompliance and an ensuing struggle against government oppression. We want people to stand on their own two fee before courts, employers, and their families, morally and legally accountable for their conduct, and to have their word of honor, rather than their affiliation with some smarmy nonprofit organization, as the key to the administration of justice.

We are quite serious about preventing AVRT® from being offered by any public agency or professional person as if it were a form of treatment. I have sent demands to cease and desist to the Federal Bureau of Prisons and many state prison administrations which were instituting clinical or educational activities under the names of our corporation or protected marks. I have also denied permission for AVRT® to be scientifically researched, because it is not an entity that is amenable to objective evaluation.

On this last note, let me explain. Suppose everyone on this BBS has a Big Plan, and for the next six months abstains. Then, everyone here decides to go out and get loaded and ends up in jail or dead.

What does that mean about AVRT®? Did AVRT® fail to keep anyone from drinking? Was AVRT® keeping anyone from drinking for the time up until the collective downfall occurred? What would the collective downfall of all RR BBSers mean to the survivors? Would it mean that AVRT® doesn't work? Would it mean that addiction is more difficult to defeat than AVRT® had suggested? Should the survivors, their families, the courts, or society conclude that the survivors have a disease that caused them to run aground like a herd of beached whales?

The point is that each individual heeded the Addictive Voice, drank or used, and cratered out. Any further explanation is another example of Addictive Voice, including the examples in the prior paragraph. AVRT® doesn't work. It's just a depiction of free will, which is not a subject that is amenable to scientific assessment.

The AVRT paradigm is difficult to learn at first, but once it's fundamental nature is grasped, the folly of our cultural orientation to substance abuse becomes apparent. The use of lab oratory to promulgate the Addictive Voice in our social service system must stop.

posted 01-12-2003 01:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by zach119:

This Research is funded by the NIAAA,and they are trying to prove that addiction is a disease.They use this as ammunition for the Recovery Group Treatment Industry.It was started by 12steppers,and there is even a link to AA on their site.

(edited 01-12-2003).]

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posted 01-12-2003 01:49 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Admin5:
I have also denied permission for AVRT® to be scientifically researched, because it is not an entity that is amenable to objective evaluation.

AVRT® doesn't work. It's just a depiction of free will, which is not a subject that is amenable to scientific assessment.

The use of lab oratory to promulgate the Addictive Voice in our social service system must stop.

Jack Trimpey

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Jack,

What about the use of the laboratory to promulgate the truth about abstinence in our culture at large? Can legitimate scientific inquiry help? And when?

Is this really an exercise in futility? Freewill may not be amenable to scientific inquiry but abstinence outcomes are. And if carefully constructed studies do provide data that supports the superiority of personal abstinence, shouldn't we use it to advocate some type of sensible addiction reform?

Ron

posted 01-12-2003 02:34 PM            

There are already tons of scientific research showing that neither recovery groups nor addiction treatment work, as measured by abstinent outcome. Moreover, there is also considerable data showing that "no treatment" is superior to any kind of treatment, that addiction treatment actually aggravates rather than mitigates addiction.

The trouble is that nobody cares. Worse, is that few people have any reason to care, and most people find the present delusional system of the addiction treatment industry more agreeable than the truth about the nature of addiction and recovery.

AVRT® has no business in the social service system, and the social service system has no business offering services called "addiction treatment" and referring citizens into the socal milieu of addiction itself.

The Opt-Out Initiative, incidentally, brings AVRT® to addicted people not as a form of government sponsored "treatment," but as an incitement to resist the imposition of the diseased identity, and as an escape hatch from the drug culture of America. Self-recovery is generic, although AVRT® is a carefully-guarded recipe for self-recovery.

Lately, as we all observe the decay of Western civilization resulting from the advancing edge of the therapeutic state, AVRT® can be seen as an atavism that may interest more folks than substance abusers.

In da meantime, all you agencies an' professionals keep yo' hands off AVRT®! Just give informed consent and be done with it.

posted 01-13-2003 07:53 AM            

I thought I had an illness, the disease of alcoholism, for many long years. I begged God to help me - and then I found AVRT - THANK GOD! It is THE method of abstaining from alcohol Mr Hardiman.

Shame on you for perpetuating any other method -LIVES ARE AT STAKE.